1 1 ILLINOIS DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE 2 Bureau of Environmental Programs 3 State Fairgrounds 4 PO Box 19281 5 Springfield, IL 62794 6 7 8 9 IN RE: THE PROPOSED CONSTRUCTION OF A LIVESTOCK 10 MANAGEMENT FACILITY BY SOUTH MORGAN ACRES, LLC. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 PUBLIC HEARING 19 20 DECEMBER 5, 2011 21 22 23 24 2 1 I N D E X 2 3 EXHIBITS DESCRIPTION PAGE 4 EXHIBIT #1 Application File 15 5 EXHIBIT #2 PowerPoint Presentation 15 6 EXHIBIT #3 Facility Presentation 59 7 EXHIBIT #4 Rutzen Letter 29 8 EXHIBIT #5 Transcripts 160 9 EXHIBIT #6 Thompson Oral Testimony 161 10 EXHIBIT #7 Adams Testimony 188 11 EXHIBIT #8 Walker Letter 227 12 EXHIBIT #9 Hudson Information 253 13 EXHIBIT #10 Adverse Effects 259 14 EXHIBIT #11 Moore Brothers Corp. 259 15 EXHIBIT #12 Letter 260 16 EXHIBIT #13 Fact Sheet 260 17 EXHIBIT #14 Sign-In Sheet 260 18 EXHIBIT #15 Sign-In Sheet 260 19 20 21 22 23 24 3 1 ILLINOIS DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE 2 Bureau of Environmental Programs 3 State Fairgrounds 4 PO Box 19281 5 Springfield, IL 62794 6 7 8 9 IN RE: THE PROPOSED CONSTRUCTION OF A LIVESTOCK 10 MANAGEMENT FACILITY BY SOUTH MORGAN ACRES, LLC. 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 Public Hearing held, pursuant to Notice, on the 18 5th day of December, 2011, at the hour of 6:10 p.m., 19 at 2500 East Jackson, Macomb, Illinois, before Scott 20 Frank, duly appointed Hearing Officer. 21 22 TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS 23 24 4 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 PRESENT: 3 SCOTT FRANK, Bureau of Environmental Programs, 4 Illinois Department of Agriculture; 5 6 WARREN D. GOETSCH, PE, Bureau Chief, Bureau of 7 Environmental Programs, Illinois Department of 8 Agriculture; 9 10 BRAD A. BEAVER, Bureau of Environmental Programs, 11 Illinois Department of Agriculture; 12 13 BILL HOLLIS, Professional Swine Management; 14 CHRIST WEST, Frank & West Environmental Engineers; 15 RON FOWLER; 16 STEVE KROGMEIER. 17 18 Court Reporter: 19 Jennifer L. Crowe, CSR 20 Illinois CSR #084-003786 21 Midwest Litigation Services 22 15 S. Old State Capitol Plaza 23 Springfield, Illinois 62701 24 217-522-2211 5 1 (Proceedings began at 6:10 p.m.) 2 HEARING OFFICER: Good evening. On behalf 3 of Jim Larkin, Acting Director of the Illinois 4 Department of Agriculture, we thank you very much for 5 the invitation to come to McDonough County tonight. 6 My name is Scott Frank. I am with the 7 Illinois Department of Agriculture, and I will be 8 serving as the hearing officer for tonight's public 9 informational meeting. Also with me on behalf of the 10 department are Warren Goetsch, Bureau Chief of the 11 Bureau of Environmental Programs and Brad Beaver with 12 the Livestock Management Program. 13 This meeting is being conducted pursuant to 14 Section 12 of the Livestock Management Facilities Act. 15 The informational meeting is being conducted at the 16 request of the McDonough County Board and is to afford 17 members of the public an opportunity to ask questions 18 and present oral and written testimony regarding the 19 proposed construction of a 3,501 animal unit swine 20 gestation, farrowing, gilt developer and nursery 21 complex owned by South Morgan Acres, LLC. 22 My task this evening is to ensure that this 23 meeting is conducted in an orderly fashion and to 24 ensure that all comments and testimony received 6 1 tonight are entered into the record. 2 Tonight's meeting is being transcribed, and a 3 transcript of the meeting will be sent to the 4 McDonough County Board as well as used by the 5 Department of Agriculture in making its determination 6 regarding the proposed construction of this swine 7 facility. 8 In order to ensure that we have an orderly 9 process, I will quickly explain how the meeting will 10 proceed this evening. First, following my comments, 11 Warren Goetsch will provide an overview of the 12 provisions of the Livestock Management Facilities Act 13 as it relates to this particular project, specifically 14 outlining the current status of the project and how 15 the process will proceed following this meeting. 16 Following Mr. Goetsch, representatives for the 17 proposed construction project will be given an 18 opportunity to describe the project and how they 19 believe it meets the citing criteria of the Livestock 20 Management Facilities Act. 21 After their presentation I will open the 22 meeting to questions. Anyone wishing to ask questions 23 of the facility representatives or the Department of 24 Agriculture will be given an opportunity to do so. 7 1 During the question and answer session, I will ask 2 that you state your name and spell your name, your 3 last name for the court reporter. You then may ask 4 your question. Depending on the number of people who 5 wish to testify in the oral testimony phase of the 6 meeting, which is right after the question phase, 7 there may be a time limit placed on the questioning 8 phase. 9 Following the question and answer session, I 10 will ask for oral testimony from the public. Sign-in 11 sheets were placed in the hallway outside the room as 12 you came in, one sheet for attendance and a second 13 sheet for testimony. 14 People who wish to provide comments during 15 this oral testimony phase are asked to sign the oral 16 testimony sheet. People providing oral comments will 17 be sworn in and will be subject to questioning from 18 the public. At that time each person will be given 19 three to five minutes to provide his or her comments. 20 Legal counsel speaking on behalf of multiple clients 21 will be given six to ten minutes to provide comment 22 and will be asked to state the names of those persons 23 on whose behalf he or she is speaking. 24 Depending upon the number of individuals 8 1 wishing to provide comment, the aforementioned time 2 limits may need to be adjusted to ensure that the 3 meeting ends at a reasonable time. 4 Following oral testimony I will ask for 5 written testimony. Written testimony will be accepted 6 in paper form and will be entered into the record for 7 this proceeding. The meeting will then conclude with 8 closing comments from the facility and the Department 9 of Agriculture. 10 So to summarize the procedure tonight, we will 11 have comments from the department, comments from the 12 facility, questions directed to the department and the 13 facility, oral testimony from the public, written 14 testimony and then finally closing comments. 15 Again, we very much appreciate your 16 hospitality in inviting us here tonight to consider 17 the proposed construction of the South Morgan Acres 18 swine facility. Remember to confine your comments and 19 questions to that subject as we continue. 20 I will now turn the proceedings over to Warren 21 Goetsch for remarks from the Illinois Department of 22 Agriculture. 23 MR. GOETSCH: Thank you, Mr. Hearing 24 Officer. Good evening. My name is Warren Goetsch. 9 1 As Mr. Frank said, I currently serve as the Bureau 2 Chief of Environmental Programs for the Illinois 3 Department of Agriculture. One of our 4 responsibilities at the department is the 5 administration of various provisions of the Livestock 6 Management Facilities Act. On behalf of the 7 department, let me welcome you to this public 8 informational meeting. 9 Before we hear from the proposed facility's 10 representatives, I would like to say a few words 11 regarding the applicable provisions of the Livestock 12 Management Facilities Act and the current status of 13 this project. 14 The Livestock Management Facilities Act was 15 originally passed and became law on May 21st of 1996. 16 Since that time, the act has been amended three times; 17 first during the General Assembly's 1997 fall veto 18 session, second during the General Assembly's 1999 19 spring session and most recently during the 2007 20 spring session. 21 The act can be generally described as covering 22 five major areas; those being facility design 23 standards, waste management planning requirements, 24 facility operator training and testing, anaerobic 10 1 lagoon financial responsibility demonstration and 2 facility setback requirements. 3 Each of these provisions impacts various types 4 of facilities in different ways depending upon the 5 facility size expressed in animal units and whether 6 the proposed facility is considered as a new facility, 7 a modified facility or the expansion of an existing 8 site. 9 The Livestock Management Facilities Act's 10 provisions are quite complicated and specific facility 11 designs and situations can certainly differ. It is, 12 however, the department's intention to always fairly 13 and equitably apply these requirements to the 14 livestock industry in this state. 15 Now, regarding the current status of this 16 project, the department received a formal notice of 17 intent to construct application for the proposed 18 construction of this swine facility on October the 19 4th, 2011. The proposed project is to consist of the 20 construction of five buildings; one farrowing building 21 measuring 162 feet by 580 feet with a two-foot deep 22 underbuilding livestock waste handling storage 23 facility, two breeding gestation buildings each 24 measuring 101 by 520 feet with 10-foot deep 11 1 underbuilding livestock waste handling facilities, one 2 gilt developer building measuring 101 by 260 with a 3 10-foot deep underbuilding livestock waste handling 4 facility and one isolation nursery building measuring 5 42 feet by 52 feet with a two feet -- two-foot 6 underbuilding livestock waste handling structure. 7 The project is proposed to be located 8 approximately 4.6 miles southwest of, I apologize if I 9 mispronounce -- 10 UNIDENTIFIED: Raritan. 11 MR. GOETSCH: -- Raritan. Thank you. I 12 knew if I waited long enough, someone would. Thank 13 you very much. 14 The application was submitted by Frank & West 15 Environmental Engineers on behalf of South Morgan 16 Acres, LLC. The maximum design capacity of the 17 proposed facility is 3,500.78 animal units or 8,000 18 head of swine greater than 55 pounds and 10,026 head 19 of swine less than 55 pounds. 20 As I mentioned earlier, the department 21 received a notice of intent to construct application 22 on October 4th and reviewed it for compliance with the 23 applicable provisions of the act. On November 9th, 24 the department determined that the notice was complete 12 1 and forwarded a copy of the completed application to 2 the McDonough County Board as well as cause notice of 3 that application to be published in the appropriate 4 newspaper. 5 The design capacity of the proposed facility 6 requires compliance with a residential setback 7 distance of not less than 1,760 feet and a populated 8 area setback distance of not less than 3,520 feet. 9 On November 18, the department received notice 10 from the McDonough County Board requesting that a 11 public informational meeting be scheduled regarding 12 the proposal. After further consultation with the 13 county board, the department scheduled this meeting 14 and caused notice of the meeting to be published in 15 the appropriate newspapers. 16 An additional requirement of the Livestock 17 Management Facilities Act deals with the design and 18 construction plans of a livestock waste handling 19 facility. At this time, the department has not 20 received a formal submittal of detailed engineering 21 design plans and specifications for the proposed 22 project's underbuilding livestock waste handling 23 facilities. Upon receipt of those plans, the 24 department will make a detailed review to determine 13 1 compliance with these statutory requirements. 2 We are here this evening to receive testimony 3 regarding the proposed livestock management facilities 4 compliance with the eight citing criteria as defined 5 in Section 12, Paragraph d of the Livestock Management 6 Facilities Act. In general, information about the 7 proposed facility's impact or excuse me, the proposed 8 facility's waste management plans, potential impact on 9 the surrounding area's character, whether the proposed 10 facility is located within any flood plains or other 11 sensitive areas as defined in the act, the facility's 12 odor control plans, the facility's possible impact on 13 existing traffic patterns and possible impacts on 14 community growth, tourism and recreation or economic 15 development. 16 Copies of the specific criteria were available 17 on the tables with the sign-in sheets in the hallway. 18 If anyone would like to have a copy of the criteria 19 but did not pick one up, if you identify yourself. 20 Brad, I believe, has some copies, and he will be happy 21 to get one to you. Just keep your hands up, and Brad 22 will bring one to you right away. 23 Finally, the process that will be followed 24 after this evenings meeting is as follows: The county 14 1 board will have up to 30 business days from today's 2 meeting. As I mentioned, the county board will have 3 up to 30 business days from today's meeting to submit 4 to the department a nonbinding recommendation relative 5 to the proposed facility. Thus, a recommendation from 6 the McDonough County Board is due at the department on 7 or before January the 19th. After the close of the 8 county's 30 business day comment period, the 9 department will have 15 calendar days or until 10 February the 3rd, 2012, to review all of the 11 information including the notice of intent to 12 construct application, construction plans, transcripts 13 from this evening's meeting, the county board's 14 recommendation and any other additional information 15 submitted by the owners at the request of the 16 department. 17 Based on that review, the department will 18 determine whether the eight citing criteria have been 19 met. Once that determination has been made, the 20 department will notify both the county board and the 21 applicant of the department's determination. 22 Mr. Hearing Officer, at this time I would like 23 to submit the completed notice of intent to construct 24 application and its associated correspondence file for 15 1 formal entry into the record as an exhibit. 2 HEARING OFFICER: Entered into the record 3 as Exhibit #1 is completed notice of intent to 4 construct including correspondence between the 5 department and the applicant, notices of public 6 informational meeting and correspondence with 7 McDonough County officials. 8 (Exhibit #1 marked for identification 9 and admitted.) 10 MR. GOETSCH: Thank you. Then with that, 11 this would conclude my formal remarks. Again, I would 12 like to thank you for your attention and your 13 attendance at this meeting this evening. I look 14 forward to hearing your comments regarding the 15 proposal and will now turn the meeting back to the 16 hearing officer. 17 HEARING OFFICER: Also entered into the 18 record as Exhibit 2 is a copy of the department's 19 PowerPoint presentation. 20 (Exhibit #2 marked for identification 21 and admitted.) 22 HEARING OFFICER: At this time we will 23 hear comments from the facility. For those who will 24 be presenting information, please state your name and 16 1 then spell your name for the court reporter. Then 2 following that, I will swear each one of you in. 3 MR. FOWLER: Ron Fowler, F-O-W-L-E-R. 4 UNIDENTIFIED: Your mic is not on. 5 HEARING OFFICER: Hold it closer. Hold it 6 closer. 7 MR. FOWLER: Ron Fowler. 8 HEARING OFFICER: Can you hear that? 9 MR. KROGMEIER: Steve Krogmeier, 10 K-R-O-G-M-E-I-E-R. 11 DR. HOLLIS: Bill Hollis, H-O-L-L-I-S. 12 MR. WEST: Chris West, W-E-S-T. 13 HEARING OFFICER: Will all representatives 14 who will be providing testimony please raise your 15 right hand. 16 (Whereupon the representatives were duly sworn.) 17 HEARING OFFICER: You may proceed with 18 your testimony. 19 MR. FOWLER: As I said earlier, my name is 20 Ron Fowler. I am here tonight with my wife, Dora. 21 Also with me tonight is Steve Krogmeier. We are here 22 representing the ten owners of South Morgan. My 23 family and I raise hogs in southern Minnesota. I farm 24 with my son who has a son and a daughter that help us 17 1 in the hog operation, too. Also have a son who is a 2 mechanic at a local dealership and a son who is a law 3 enforcement officer who is raising three boys in a 4 nearby town. We have been raising hogs since I was 5 14. A long time. In 2009 my family was named the 6 Minnesota pork family of the year. We make and 7 deliver all of our own feed. We own and operate a 8 1,000 sow farrow-to-finish operation. 9 The pork industry has changed over the years, 10 and I believe that in order to stay competitive we 11 have to change with it. 12 UNIDENTIFIED: I'm going to switch you out 13 mics. 14 MR. FOWLER: After coming home -- thank 15 you. After coming home at about 7 or 8:00 at night 16 most nights, my son also, taking its toll and also the 17 disease pressure that we've been having, I talked with 18 professionals to find out another avenue to 19 economically raise hogs, and through that discussion I 20 was given the name of PCM (sic) here in Carthage. 21 I wanted to replace doing my own farrowing and 22 getting 500 pigs a week to being able to get 2500 pigs 23 a week, and what we have found with that is that it is 24 a $7 per pig savings and an economic reason to do 18 1 things. PCM's (sic) past history has proven that they 2 can manage these sized units and do it very well and 3 also put out that number of pigs at an economical 4 price. So that is why I am here. 5 Before I let Steve talk, I will finish on. 6 Like I say, we have ten owners, and all of us are 7 farmers, and we all have decided that we want to raise 8 healthy pigs. They will all be raised in our own 9 facilities at different locations throughout the 10 country. We want to explain why we are here, what we 11 plan to do and why you are all here tonight, I guess. 12 We're all farmers. We own our own crops. We 13 put our manure from our hog buildings and finishing 14 facilities on our own land. We, as a unit, have hired 15 PSM, Professional Swine Management, to help us because 16 they have the expertise and the knowledge that we were 17 looking for to do an excellent job in this area. 18 Others have come together. They like the strong 19 history that PCM (sic) has provided in this specific 20 area, and we also like the high quality pigs that they 21 have been producing as they come out of their 22 management. 23 We plan to build a farm that will provide all 24 of the pigs we need for all of our operations. The 19 1 pigs will be fed out in Iowa, Illinois and Minnesota. 2 The farm that we are planning to build will house 3 approximately 5600 sows and will wean approximately 4 2500 pigs per week. 5 We recognize that there are concerns for the 6 way that the farm will be managed, concerns of odor, 7 water, roads, and we have hired engineers to come and 8 discuss this with you tonight for the plans of the 9 South Morgan facility. We will discuss how we plan to 10 address each of the concerns appropriately and 11 completely to the best of our ability. We want to be 12 your neighbor for a long time, and we are here tonight 13 because we want to hear your concerns. 14 MR. KROGMEIER: Good evening. My name is 15 Steve Krogmeier. A little background. I was -- 16 originally I'm from Fort Madison, Iowa which is not 17 too far from here, Lee County, born and raised on a 18 40-cow dairy operation. My dad had, I think, 15 sows 19 or whatever. I still have two brothers that farm. I 20 live in northeast Iowa. All of our pigs are fed out 21 at Fayette County. 22 The reason that I am here and many of us other 23 owners of this project is because the industry has 24 gone to we need 24, 2500 pigs a week to fill our 20 1 barns. In our county we have approximately 300,000 2 pigs in Fayette County, Iowa. We've got 20 million 3 pigs in the state of Illinois. 4 When you bring these little pigs in, we want 5 them to be as healthy as possible and with the best 6 genetics. McDonough County has approximately 15,000 7 pigs, so the health standards are just a lot higher 8 where you have a less pig dense area. So that's one 9 of the reasons why this project interests us growers 10 because you can't hardly build a sow unit in Iowa, or 11 wouldn't want to. 12 The second reason is the quality of job and 13 the reputation of Professional Swine Management has 14 done. I've worked with these gentlemen since 2004. 15 We have invested in three other sow units, and they've 16 worked very well. They have done a very good job of 17 managing from an environmental standpoint and a pig 18 production and pig health standpoint. 19 DR. HOLLIS: Thank you, Ron and thank you, 20 Steve. I'm going to let these guys sit down so that 21 we are not all elbow to elbow while I'm trying to show 22 you some slides. 23 My name is Bill Hollis. I am a veterinarian 24 from Carthage, Illinois and owner and partner in 21 1 Professional Swine Management. Many of you here 2 tonight I grew up with. I grew up in Bushnell and 3 have been in Carthage for 15 years. 4 My interest in coming back to this area was 5 because of livestock and because of the ability that 6 we have in this part of the country to effectively 7 raise livestock, and when these gentlemen are talking 8 about healthy pigs and being in an area that is 9 healthy, that's because we are very fortunate in this 10 part of the State of Illinois to have healthy pigs. 11 So it is this pig density and its ability to house and 12 to biosecurely manage the facility that has led to 13 much of this opportunity for folks that see that as a 14 benefit as well. 15 So my part in sharing with you will be about 16 our role of working together and our role with many of 17 you in the audience that have decided to join us and 18 hear about it. I know many of you have questions 19 because we've heard some of them and we've read them 20 and we appreciate that you want to know who we are and 21 you want to know why we are here, what we are planning 22 to do in your part of the country. 23 So what I would like to try to do with some 24 pictures and with my discussion is to talk about 22 1 really three things, distilling it down to tonight's 2 message is about people, that being who we are. You 3 want to know that we are here and we are honestly 4 committed to do this right. And you want to know 5 about pigs, are we doing things appropriately for the 6 land, for the livestock and for the industry. 7 Then you also want to know about the neighbors 8 because many of you maybe very close to this, and we 9 want to hear your concerns, and we also want to give 10 you more information about us because we want to be 11 your neighbor and because we realize that there are 12 concerns about our business. 13 So some pictures always help. This is who we 14 are. These individuals are either veterinarians here 15 or managers from the farms. These are pictures of 16 what these farms do. They raise baby pigs. This 17 little guy right there is my son, Ben. He is actually 18 five there. He is nine now. This is Dr. Doug Groth's 19 daughter Tarin, also same age, but we keep these 20 pictures around because we remember why we are here. 21 The gentleman next to them is Jorge Solano who 22 is a manager of one of the farms. Jorge was educated 23 in Mexico, and he is here legally documented because 24 he wants to work in one of these farms. He is a 23 1 manager of 20 other people because he is an excellent 2 caretaker of pigs. 3 That is Janet. Janet is a manager of a farm, 4 again, 20 people. Janet is doing some teaching here, 5 I think trying to explain what needs to be done for 6 the day on the farm. These are the people that work 7 in our office in Carthage. 8 It is not all going to be hugs and kisses 9 either, so for those of you that are getting tired of 10 my pictures of people, I want to talk to you about 11 remember the people and who we are, I want to talk to 12 you about the pigs and then about the neighbors. But 13 these people are all employed in our office in 14 Carthage. 15 Professional Swine Management does not own the 16 pig farm. Professional Swine Management is a service 17 company. There are four of us that are veterinarians 18 in the office that own Professional Swine Management, 19 and that company operates to provide education, 20 training, oversight, to provide the production for the 21 farm. So the ten farmers that have chosen to invest 22 in your neighborhood have trusted us to operate that 23 farm. These people are the ones employed to do that. 24 To give you a little bit more breakdown of who 24 1 we are, there are 26 different farm locations, 320 2 full-time farm employees. Those are individual 3 employees of the farm that they work for. So South 4 Morgan will have its own 16 to 18 employees that work 5 for these gentlemen and their partners. There are 320 6 people doing that in this part of the Midwest spread 7 over those 26 farm locations. 8 PSM is a company out of Carthage. It has 34 9 full-time employees. We also thought it was important 10 to include that we have two co-op students, that out 11 of those 33 employees there are two PhD's, one in 12 nutrition, one in agronomy. Our agronomist is here 13 with us tonight, and he can explain to you that 14 protecting the soil, protecting the water is something 15 that's very important to us as well. We also have a 16 CPA in our accounting office, two masters in animal 17 science, and of these 33 people, we put together that 18 there is 132 kids and 61 grandchildren. One of them 19 has a baby on the way. So we moved here because we 20 want to be here. We are raising our families here. 21 PSM was established in 2000 and, again, as I 22 said, manages 26 farm locations. PSM was hired by 23 farmers who trust us to raise their livestock and 24 educate our employees. It really is about the people 25 1 and about the pigs and about the neighbors. So we 2 have been hired by gentlemen that want us to help them 3 raise their pigs. That's why we are here tonight. 4 This happens to be Jay Walters. He is a 5 manager and last year was named the farm manager of 6 the year. We provide that at a educational program we 7 hold at Western. We have a large number of producers 8 that come to learn about livestock production, and Jay 9 was recognized by PSM in front of the group. Robin 10 over here is actually blowing out candles on a 11 birthday cake, but, again, I am showing you that we do 12 have a good time with the farmers that we work with. 13 This slide is really introduced here as a 14 depiction of the progression of not only the 15 veterinarians that work in our veterinary office but 16 where PSM, as I explained, came into managing 17 production in 2000. It used to be we were asked to do 18 records and to help them improve their genetics in the 19 80's and 90's. PSM as a company was established in 20 2000 to do more of this over here. This is learning 21 and development tools for employees, and this is 22 production facilities that have a specialized purpose 23 to raise pigs for a changing industry, that have a 24 desire to develop these new technologies in 26 1 production. 2 We have also grown in our business. This, 3 again, is the office for Carthage Veterinary Service 4 which is still an operating veterinary business and a 5 separate company. We started out housing some folks 6 in an addition but have since moved collectively with 7 a couple of other businesses to a four-story office 8 building and taken over the old college campus in 9 downtown Carthage. So we're trying to reinvest, 10 trying to see growth, trying to see development in the 11 area. 12 This is another picture of the people, and I 13 just want to continue to reinforce that the managers 14 that have joined us tonight, people that you will hear 15 from during the comments want to be here and enjoy 16 this work. They are good at it. 17 These are people that are celebrating their 18 birthdays. The floor manager, actually Janet is the 19 farm manager of this farm, has instituted every month 20 they share their birthday. So this happened to be one 21 of the biggest months. This is a farm that has about 22 eight, ten employees, and there were five of them in 23 the same month. 24 These are our production supervisors. There 27 1 are five guys that have excelled in production but now 2 lead teams at multiple farms. These guys are 3 excellent at developing people and raising pigs, so 4 they are trusted to go to these farms and help develop 5 career paths, and here they are actually volunteering 6 at the Illinois State Fair. So if you have ever gone 7 to the state fair to the pork chop booth, we send 8 people to help with that. 9 So the take-home on people is that PSM's value 10 is well positioned in a rapidly changing environment. 11 We're asking to be a part of this team with owners 12 that want us to help them raise pigs, and the way we 13 do that is to help bring students. There is three 14 veterinarians here that work with PSM. The rest of 15 these are all students that want to come to the area, 16 that want to see what we are doing, understand how to 17 raise pigs in a healthy environment, safe for food, 18 good for them to learn, and that's what we are trying 19 to do with people. 20 I also note tonight is about the pigs. I want 21 to share some facts about pig production that we find 22 very important and we hope help you understand what we 23 do. It is not these pigs. 24 When I came to Carthage 15 years ago, we would 28 1 blood test pigs out in an open field with a hog snare, 2 and the industry has changed. We are providing an 3 environment that is safer for food, is safer for pigs. 4 We have new technology for testing and managing animal 5 health, and we still have a viable pig production 6 business in our state. 7 Illinois is fourth in pig production, has 8 about 27 hog farms, 2700 hog farms, sorry, and about 9 4.5 million pigs in the pig business. Iowa by 10 comparison we just heard has over 20 million pigs. So 11 we are not trying to grow Illinois to 20 million pigs, 12 we are trying to help Illinois producers have safe 13 locations to raise their pigs. 14 This is the pig business that we're talking 15 about tonight. This is a farm to produce 12 to 16 14-pound baby pigs. The farm is designed to produce 17 baby pigs. This is a pig that is a newborn, and these 18 are pigs on a truck to be delivered to a producer's 19 facility. 20 The pork industry also consumes 10% of the 21 total US corn crop. A viable, valid part of the 22 industry, of the livestock industry and of the grain 23 farming industry. Pork industry consumes roughly 10% 24 of the soybean crop as well, 283 million bushels. In 29 1 Illinois hogs consume about 94 million of corn and 26 2 million bushels of soybeans. 3 The sows and gilts at South Morgan will 4 consume -- sorry -- will consume approximately 180,000 5 bushels of local corn each year, and incidentally PSM 6 manages herds in this area that in total consume about 7 2.5 million bushels of corn. That's a real number. 8 That's locally produced corn coming out of the NSI 9 feed mill in Carthage. 10 So if some of you have stopped in Carthage 11 instead of driving on to deliver corn at the river in 12 Keokuk, if you deliver corn in Carthage at the NSI 13 mill, that's part of that 2.5 million bushels of corn. 14 We believe we are a viable, contributing part of the 15 grain farming business in this part of the country. 16 This is a photograph of the NSI mill. Matt Dearwester 17 works with many of our farms that we service and 18 provides an excellent service to them. 19 Incidentally -- and I will let our engineer 20 that's here to talk to you tonight get into this in 21 more detail, but it is also important that our feed 22 mill operator and our feed delivery trucks work with 23 your road commission, and we met with Bill Callahan 24 this morning. We will continue to work with the roads 30 1 to ensure that we are a good neighbor and that we are 2 appropriately and effectively addressing the concerns 3 that you would have. Matt Dearwester and I had a 4 conversation today. He is responsible for those 5 communications and will hold those communications 6 effectively. I know you are concerned about whether 7 or not the roads will be handled appropriately, and 8 there will be four to five feed trucks a week. Those 9 will be semi-trucks. This is a sow farm, so there is 10 not going to be a tremendous amount of grain moving up 11 and down the road to feed the pigs at this facility. 12 I also want to end with -- and I appreciate 13 your patience as I went through this. I also want to 14 end tonight talking about the neighbors. We respect 15 that you have concerns, and some of you have concerns 16 about questions that we may not have addressed in the 17 past. What we would like you to hear us out on is 18 that we have selected a site that we believe is safe 19 for odor control, it is safe to minimize traffic and 20 impact of traffic, and it is safe to maximize the 21 value of nutrients back to the soil. It is in an area 22 where there is a good number of grain farmers. 23 Phil and Dolores Butler have approached us, 24 and I know that some of you have approached them. 31 1 Phil Butler would like to have manure for his grain 2 farm. That's why he came to us. And Phil is not 3 going to be one of the owners of South Morgan. And 4 Dolores is wanting to see her son have an opportunity 5 to help build the fertility and value of his farm. We 6 believe this is a safe location and good location to 7 do that. 8 We also recognize that some of you have 9 concerns about regulation, and I want to address two 10 examples because I know some of you feel that we have 11 not been forthcoming to discuss this. I want to 12 address two examples tonight. One of those is the -- 13 sorry, am I not -- one of those is an example of when 14 a farm in McDonough County called Pinnacle Genetics 15 was built over five years ago. Not ten yet but over 16 five. 17 When it was built, a livestock trailer was 18 being washed in the machine shed. The plastic 19 breeding supplies were being burnt in a trash barrel 20 at the farm, and the farm was using an incinerator to 21 burn dead pigs. All of those items were unacceptable 22 to the Illinois EPA, and that farm was notified of the 23 violations, received a compliance hearing, addressed 24 those appropriately, and those don't occur. That 32 1 truck wash is permitted with a waste handling facility 2 now, and the other two items don't happen anymore. 3 So as a result of that, PSM becomes stronger, 4 and our farms become stronger, and we recognize the 5 concerns of the regulators. So what you also -- what 6 we would also like you to recognize is that the fine 7 levied for that, we asked to be attributed to some 8 things that we felt were important. One of those was 9 trees to be planted at that farm, one of those was to 10 the soil and water conservation district and one that 11 they wanted was that that fine be applied to an 12 investigation of air and wind farms. So that's an 13 example of a compliance issue that was addressed with 14 compliance hearing and had an acceptable outcome for 15 everyone. 16 The Wild Cat Farm is west of LaHarpe near 17 Durham, and when that farm was built, it is actually a 18 farm built more similar to the size of South Morgan. 19 It is a farm that has a different manure structure 20 than South Morgan. South Morgan will have all 21 underground reinforced, steel reinforced concrete 22 manure containment. Both farms will have sewer lines 23 that connect the farrowing to the breeding gestation, 24 and at the Wild Cat Farm, a contract mower, a 33 1 gentleman was hired to come in and mow the property, 2 and he knocked over one of the clean-outs, which a 3 clean-out is a sewer line that allows access. It 4 comes up and out of the ground, and it allows access 5 to the underground sewer lines. 6 PSM recognized the event. There was manure 7 that spilled on top of the ground. It was contained, 8 reported and cleaned up. 9 It is a common misconception that if somebody 10 contacts the Illinois EPA, whether it is a complaint 11 or it is self-reporting, and in this situation it was 12 self-reporting, it is a common misconception that if 13 the Illinois EPA comes out and writes a report, 14 somebody has broken the law. That's not the case. 15 In Wild Cats' example, there was clean up and a report 16 and a change made on our part that we feel made it 17 better. 18 So we will be good neighbors. We will 19 continue to comply with regulations. They do change 20 over time, so we are trying to help work within that 21 changing regulatory environment. 22 This is an example of that clean-out type 23 system that is at all of the farms that we manage 24 today. We put PVC pipe with orange paint at the top, 34 1 and we recognize with a gravel perimeter where those 2 clean-outs are located. 3 Incidentally it is also interesting that this 4 picture was given to the Illinois EPA, Eric Ackerman, 5 Richard Breckenridge, who may not be with them now, 6 but those gentlemen received this picture, and they 7 use it now to show other people what they would like 8 to see. 9 So I appreciate your patience. I am getting 10 to the end. The questions we also recognize with the 11 neighbors are that you want to know that we will 12 protect the environment. 13 Our manure storage plan for South Morgan is 12 14 months, and state law requires five months. So it is 15 our plan to provide more manure storage than is 16 required, and that helps both the farmers that want 17 the manure at the best time for the field, and it 18 helps the farm so that the farm has more time to work 19 out manure application strategies. 20 Another item where we would overbuild would be 21 for mortality and managing mortality that could happen 22 at the farm. We would have compost structures that 23 are fully roofed. They would have -- I will show you 24 a picture. So compost mortality management is where 35 1 dead pigs that do happen at the farm are picked up 2 with a tractor and a front-end loader, taken to a 3 concrete structure like this that has sawdust, are 4 buried with sawdust, and then nature takes its course. 5 That compost material is picked up and used to bury 6 additional pigs that die at the farm and then covered 7 again with fresh sawdust. 8 And the management tools that we have learned 9 that we apply to the farm is to have a concrete apron 10 out front. Actually many of these are concrete all of 11 the way around on all four sides with a driveway into 12 them. This particular picture just shows a concrete 13 apron and a concrete bay and a concrete floor, air 14 space for fresh air and a roof. We believe we 15 overbuild to manage it appropriately. 16 So we want to be here, and having grown up 17 here, I am particularly interested in being here. I 18 showed livestock with Phil Butler in 4H. I have known 19 him for a long time. I want to be here. Many of us 20 see this as a long-term business that we intend to 21 help foster. This is one of the things we do. 22 I'm about done. This happens to be Dr. Kelly 23 Greiner reading a book called Pigs and Pork from the 24 Illinois Pork Producers. This also happens to be 36 1 October 31st, so I think the teacher was looking for 2 something for the kids to do because they are all in 3 their costumes and didn't want to do anything else. 4 But this happens to be the Easter egg hunt we 5 hold out on the front lawn. The staff in our office 6 went around town with other people in town and put 7 together 5,060 plastic Easter eggs that either had 8 candy or had a coupon for a business in town. We are 9 doing things to be a part of the neighborhood. We 10 want to be your neighbor. 11 This is when I had a better looking face. 12 Illinois Food -- nobody wants to laugh tonight, do 13 they? Illinois Food Bank is something that we donate 14 to. This is 5,000 pounds of pork, and we are donating 15 it to the Illinois Food Bank. It happens to be Tim 16 Maier right here with Illinois Pork Producers, and 17 Illinois Pork Producers Pork Power Program provides 18 over 250,000 pounds of pork to the Illinois Food Bank. 19 Is that the right number? 20 Last few slides. These gentlemen and their 21 eight partners are going to invest $11 million in your 22 community. They are going to use 180,000 bushels of 23 corn. They are going to be producing fertilizer that 24 has value, and they are going to be managing a payroll 37 1 of -- they are going to be trusting us to manage a 2 payroll of 18 employees and about $700,000 of payroll 3 every year. 4 This is the tax bill that we anticipate, and I 5 will try to go through it briefly here, but the 6 accountant in our office that helped put it together 7 is here tonight. So sorry, Gary, to put you on the 8 spot. But we've done this before, and so we are very 9 familiar with the tax bill and very familiar with the 10 building. And so this is based off of the value of 11 the property, value of the building. This is based 12 off of the rates that we already know or are already 13 published, and this is our anticipated tax bill. 14 A couple items I want to draw your attention 15 to are $55,000 per year for the local school district, 16 $6,000 per year for rock and road, respecting that it 17 costs more than that for some of the early start-up, 18 and the 11,000 that goes right directly to the county 19 for a total of 90,000. We are not asking for any 20 different treatment than any of the other farms. This 21 was put together based on the other farms that we have 22 in McDonough County. We are familiar with it. 23 So these are a couple of neighbors that you 24 guys know. We want to be your neighbor. This is 38 1 Wyatt Johnson and his sister, Abby. Abby gave us 2 these pictures because it was part of her 4H project. 3 So I think Lee Wards' grandkids look pretty good. And 4 this is Andy who is the manager of one of the farms 5 that we service. 6 I think I am done. Thank you. I'll turn it 7 over to Chris West. 8 HEARING OFFICER: Go ahead, Mr. West. 9 MR. WEST: Good evening. My name is 10 Christ West. I am with Frank & West Environmental 11 Engineers out of Springfield. We've been hired by 12 Professional Swine Management to provide the 13 engineering for this project and to help and assist 14 with the permitting for the project. If you can't 15 hear me, I would appreciate it if you would just raise 16 your hand. I will try to speak up. If I can maintain 17 my voice tonight, we will be in pretty good shape 18 here. 19 What I would like to do is go over a small 20 introduction about the facility, a site overview and 21 layout and talk about how this facility conforms with 22 the Livestock Management Facilities Act and the eight 23 citing criteria that we are required to talk about 24 tonight. 39 1 This is a map of McDonough County, and you can 2 see up in the far northwestern corner a little white 3 dot there. That is the area where South Morgan is 4 preparing to put this or proposing, excuse me, to put 5 this facility. This is that same area zoomed in 6 slightly. You can see right there in the center with 7 the white box with the red outline. That would be the 8 perimeter of the facility property where these 9 buildings would be going. 10 Here we have a layout of how these buildings 11 are being proposed. We have a gestation barn 520 feet 12 by 101 feet, a farrowing barn 162 feet by 580, another 13 gestation barn 520 by 101 feet, a gilt developer 101 14 feet by 260 feet, and a nursery isolation unit 48 feet 15 by 52 feet. This is -- this layout is with the north 16 facing toward the top of the screen, so that's how it 17 would lay out within that perimeter that we showed on 18 the previous screen. These are the five barns that 19 would be proposed for this facility. 20 The citing criteria, in summary, for each of 21 these, there are eight. The first one deals with the 22 registration and certification requirement; the 23 second, the design, location and operation standards; 24 the third, the location compatibility; fourth is flood 40 1 plain and aquifer protection; five is a minimization 2 to the environmental impact; six is odor control and 3 odor reduction; seven, traffic patterns whether they 4 are minimized impacts by the facility; number eight, 5 is the facility consistent with the area development. 6 We are going to go over each of these. I'm 7 going to have the full definition for each of these up 8 here on the screen, but in summary, citing criteria 9 one, as I mentioned, is registration and certification 10 of the facility. 11 As Mr. Goetsch mentioned earlier, the notice 12 of intent was filed by our office to the Department of 13 Ag October 4th, 2011. It was deemed complete also by 14 the Department of Ag November 9th, 2011. 15 Part two of citing criteria one deals with the 16 livestock, the waste management plan. Any facility 17 with a minimum of 1,000 or 1,000 units up to 5,000 18 units is required to maintain and implement a waste 19 management plan for the facility. That is to be put 20 into effect within 60 working days after commencing 21 operation. 22 The farm is prepared to implement and to 23 develop and implement a comprehensive nutrient 24 management plan. There is a fairly significant 41 1 difference between a waste management plan and a 2 comprehensive nutrient management plan. The 3 comprehensive nutrient management plan was an idea 4 developed by the USDA-NRCS, Natural Resource 5 Conversation Service, and it takes into account not 6 only the manure developed by the facility, it also 7 takes into account the crop rotations that are being 8 put in, the soil types that are being -- that the 9 waste is being applied to, tillage practices as well. 10 We are required to show that every acre of these 11 fields have a minimum soil loss so that, so that there 12 is -- we're required, excuse me, minimum soil loss. 13 Those are all details within a comprehensive nutrient 14 management plant. 15 We are also required to develop a very 16 specific and very detailed emergency response plan 17 that deals with animal issues in case there was a 18 problem with animal health or in case there was a 19 human health issue there or in case there was a 20 environmental issue as well. All of those are 21 outlined in the emergency response plan. 22 Once the or once the comprehensive nutrient 23 management plan is developed, the farm will submit to 24 the department a certification form certifying this 42 1 has been done and is being implemented. The farm will 2 keep the CNP, comprehensive nutrient management plan, 3 as well as all records of livestock waste disposal at 4 the farm. This plan and records will be available for 5 inspection by the Department of Ag at any time. 6 The goal of a comprehensive nutrient 7 management plan is to utilize manure produced by the 8 farm at approved agronomic loading rates in ways that 9 meet the needs of locally grown crops. It is a cycle. 10 If you look at the top of the screen, we have got the 11 corn. The corn feeds the pigs. The pigs provide the 12 manure, and then the manure is put on the field as 13 fertilizer to provide nutrients for the crops, and 14 then it is just a full circle. 15 The goal of that nutrient management plan or 16 comprehensive nutrient management plan will be 17 developed by using the following; total annual manure 18 volumes, calculations developed by the facility, 19 historically proven yields in all the application 20 areas. 21 So we take every application field and we go 22 back and look at county records, crop insurance 23 records and we find out what the yields were in those 24 fields. We look at the loading rates of the manure, 43 1 site specific nutrient values of the manure that's 2 coming out of these facilities. 3 The comprehensive nutrient management plan 4 also has provisions in there for setbacks, setbacks 5 from houses, setbacks from wells, setbacks from bodies 6 of water. All of those things are implemented in this 7 plan. There is also a ton of records in each plan 8 that document all phases. 9 Citing criteria two deals with the design and 10 operation standards of the facility. The design is 11 put together according to the Midwest Plan Service 12 concrete manure storage handbook. The Midwest Plan 13 Service is a 12-university based publishing 14 cooperative that is dedicated to publishing and 15 disseminating research based and peer reviewed 16 publications. This one in particular deals with 17 concrete specifications, reinforcement requirements 18 and all water stop requirements for the facility. 19 The design for the proposed farm, as I 20 mentioned earlier, in the facility map shows two 21 gestation barns, a farrowing barn, a gilt developer 22 barn and a nursery barn. So we will have a full set 23 of construction plans for each of those types of 24 barns. 44 1 Here is a similar facility. Obviously it is 2 not this one, but this is a similar size, similar 3 animal number facility located here in Illinois. What 4 we see here are the two gestation barns. This would 5 be a similar layout to what we would expect to see 6 here. Very similar layout. 7 So the two gestation barns. This is the 8 inside of a gestation barn. This is what the inside 9 of this barn will look like. 10 Next we go to the farrowing barn in between 11 the two gestation barns. Here is what a farrowing 12 unit and farrowing crate would look like, and, you 13 know, the crate is intended to protect the lives and 14 health of the piglets there so they are able to nurse 15 without fear of being injured. 16 We have a gilt developer barn. This is what 17 the inside of the gilt developer barn would look like. 18 We have -- the last barn is the small nursery 19 barn. This is what a nursery pen looks like. This is 20 what we will see inside this barn once built. 21 The second part of the citing criteria deals 22 with the location and have setback distances been met. 23 These setbacks for these types of facilities, we have 24 an occupied residence setback, and we have a populated 45 1 area setback. As I mentioned earlier and as 2 Mr. Goetsch mentioned, the farm location which was set 3 -- which was detailed in the notice of intent to 4 construct application form was deemed complete by the 5 Department of Ag November 9th of this year. 6 Part three deals with the proposed operation 7 of the facility. As required by the Livestock 8 Management Facilities Act, this facility will have a 9 certified livestock manager as the manager for this 10 farm. 11 This program was developed by the Department 12 of Ag to educate livestock managers on manure handling 13 and manure systems. Managers of farms over 1,000 14 animal units are required to attend a training course 15 and pass an exam before they are given this 16 certification. And also as part of the proposed 17 operation will be the comprehensive nutrient 18 management plan that we will develop for this 19 facility. 20 Citing criteria three deals with the location 21 compatibility. When we talk about compatibility, we 22 talk -- the first thing we talk about is zoning within 23 the county. Rural areas within McDonough County are 24 not zoned. We also talk about setbacks. This 46 1 facility has shown that it's been able to meet and 2 exceed all of the setbacks and just in general this 3 farm is compatible with the surrounding area in that 4 it is a rural, agricultural area. That is exactly 5 what we are proposing. 6 We talk -- I talked about the different types 7 of setbacks, and I would like to break them down here 8 a little bit. Setbacks are based on animal units. 9 This facility will have 8,000 animals that are greater 10 than 55 pounds which is equal to 3,200 animal units. 11 The 8,000 is broken down further into 5800 mature sows 12 and 2200 grower gilts for breeder replacement. This 13 farm will also house 10,026 animals less than 55 14 pounds for the 300.78 animal units. This will be 15 comprised of 1,000 young gilts and 9,026 baby pigs. 16 This brings total farm animal units up to 3,500.78, 17 and that relates to an occupied residence setback of 18 1,760 feet and a populated area setback of 3,520 feet. 19 Here is a setback map. This was submitted 20 with the notice of intent to construct the application 21 form, and once you see right smack dab in the center 22 the blue rectangle, that represents the same perimeter 23 that I showed earlier of the same facility. The 24 buildings will be housed within the blue rectangle. 47 1 The first circle, if that's what you want to 2 call it, first shape outside that black line deals 3 with the residential area setback. There can be no 4 residence not -- that are not owned by the facility 5 within that setback. There are none that are close. 6 As I mentioned, that's 1,760 feet. 7 The next line that you see outside of that, 8 the orange line that also circles the facility, that's 9 3,520 feet radius from the closest point of that 10 rectangle is the populated area setback. As we show 11 here, there is no populated areas close to that 12 setback either. 13 UNIDENTIFIED: My house is there. 14 HEARING OFFICER: Ma'am, we will have time 15 for questions later. 16 MR. WEST: Citing criteria four, there is 17 definition in summary. We are going to talk about 18 flood plain and aquifer protection. Here is a map of 19 the McDonough County soil or sorry, the flood plain 20 map, and what we have here is, again, the red 21 rectangle toward the bottom left-hand corner. That's, 22 again, the perimeter for the proposed South Morgan 23 Acres facility. 24 The red arrow that leads up to the top right, 48 1 that shows the hatching that represents the 100-year 2 flood plain. The arrow pointing to the center of the 3 screen, that shows where that 100-year flood plain is 4 located along the LaMoine Creek, LaMoine River, 5 depending which map you look at. As we can see, there 6 is -- you know, we're not, we are not relatively close 7 to the 100-year flood plain there at all. 8 Karst area is another portion of citing 9 criteria four. We talk about sink holes or 10 underground systems that are generally overlaying by 11 less than 60 feet of unconsolidated materials. There 12 is the northern half of Illinois. The dashed, hatched 13 areas, those represent the karst areas as determined 14 by the Illinois Geological Survey, and you can see 15 there in the center we have South Morgan Acres, we 16 have an arrow down to the top, top northwest corner of 17 McDonough County. We are a full county away from any 18 area that's been identified as being any area of 19 karst. As I mentioned, the farm is not located within 20 any area identified by karst. 21 The next point I want to talk about is aquifer 22 material. Aquifer is typically sandstone or some type 23 of a sand gravel mixture that is five feet or more in 24 thickness or at least two feet present within any 49 1 five-foot section of a soil bore. 2 We conducted a site investigation at the 3 facility, and what the site investigation comprised of 4 at least partially are soil borings within the 5 footprint of each and every building, and those soil 6 borings are advanced at a minimum of five feet below 7 the planned bottom of each building. What we are 8 doing, we are looking for karst, we are looking for 9 open areas, anything, any voids within the soil. In 10 particular we are looking for aquifer. No aquifer 11 material was encountered in any of the soil borings. 12 This is an example of how we would do a soil 13 boring at the site. The green line across the screen 14 represents the current soil grade, current vegetation 15 level. The hatched line represents where the proposed 16 building would be. So we're talking about in this 17 example, eight feet below the ground to the bottom of 18 this proposed pit. We have conducted soil boring a 19 minimum of 13 feet deep. So we are going at least 20 five foot below the planned bottom of that. We are 21 sampling at six-inch intervals, so we are constantly 22 looking and determining what the soil type is and if 23 we are encountering any aquifer material. 24 Citing criteria five in summary whether or not 50 1 this facility will minimize the environmental impact. 2 This -- let's talk about spills. If a facility is 3 properly sized, we shouldn't have to worry about 4 routine spills. We are required -- these types of 5 facilities that are holding liquid manure are required 6 to hold a minimum of 150 days worth of storage, at 7 least 150 days worth of storage. This farm will have 8 in excess of 365 days. 9 This is a closed system, and by that I mean 10 there is no uncontrolled release of livestock manure. 11 Everything is contained. It all goes from the pig to 12 the floor into the pit. 13 Run-off: Run-off typically deals with manure 14 outside, animals outside the building. What these 15 facilities do, we put diversions up so we direct all 16 storm water, all fresh water away from the buildings 17 so that they would never be in contact with any manure 18 to begin with. 19 Leaching, and by that I mean movement of 20 material through another material. This farm will be 21 designed so that it is to prevent a release of 22 livestock manure through the leaching. Solid, solid 23 concrete construction reinforced with grade 60 steel 24 rebar, water stops placed in all construction joints. 51 1 So by that I mean if there is a joint in that 2 wall, if there is a place where we stop construction 3 and begin the next day, there is a piece of water stop 4 in there so it forms a watertight seal so that any 5 material cannot move in or out of that structure. 6 As required by the Livestock Management 7 Facilities Act, all surfaces in contact with livestock 8 manure will meet the permit building standards. 9 Citing criteria six, odor control and/or 10 reduction. South Morgan Acres is proposing to 11 implement a comprehensive odor control plan, and as 12 part of this we are going -- it is going to be control 13 land application of the manure generated by the 14 facility, routine maintenance of the facility itself, 15 feed management as well as location of the facility. 16 This facility will have a controlled 17 application of manure by injection. By injection. 18 Based on nitrogen and/or phosphorus loading from 19 actual on-site. Once this facility is up and running, 20 we will be collecting manure samples from this, from 21 these barns at least annually and will be analyzing 22 those so that we can know exactly what the nutrient 23 value, nutrient contents of each gallon of manure that 24 goes onto the field. 52 1 As I mentioned just above there, South Morgan 2 Acres intends to utilize injection as the application 3 method for livestock manure at this facility. It 4 minimizes contact with air by placing that manure 5 under the ground right where the crop root level is so 6 it can be used. It can be placed where it can be used 7 the most. It minimizes contact with the air. It 8 doesn't lay on top of the ground. It is widely 9 accepted as the best available technology for manure 10 application. 11 All livestock manure will be custom applied by 12 a certified manure applicator. All application 13 equipment will have safety controls such as visually 14 monitored all of the time, emergency shut-offs in the 15 cab, communication between personnel available at all 16 times. So there will be people outside, not just the 17 person sitting in the tractor. There will be people 18 outside watching this so that if anything were to 19 happen, it can be diagnosed immediately, shut down and 20 can be contained. 21 Here is an example of a tanker system with an 22 injection tool behind it. Here is another example 23 also of injection system behind a manure tanker. Here 24 is an example of a drag line system, and what this 53 1 does, this allows us to pump directly from the pits 2 through a line directly to the tool. So it minimizes, 3 and this is one of the things that we help with -- the 4 facility helps with the local roads because we are not 5 -- they're not running tankers back and forth. They 6 are using this drag line system. 7 South Morgan Acres facility has at least 1170 8 acres locally per year available for livestock manure 9 application. This is approximately how much put in 10 corn -- is proposed to go into corn this year. 11 Utilizing local yields with these soil types that we 12 know are in these areas, it is anticipated the farm 13 would utilize approximately 600 acres of a corn corn 14 rotation. The rate of this manure application is 15 equivalent to four-tenths of an inch of rain. So this 16 is an annual application in each field. It would be 17 equivalent to about four-tenths of an inch. 18 The farm will also utilize regular maintenance 19 to reduce the odors generated by the facility and to 20 minimize dust originated from the facility. A regular 21 -- the regular maintenance will include routine visual 22 walk-throughs to make sure there is no buildup above 23 the floor of manure, to make sure it is all in the pit 24 where it is supposed to be as well as regular cleaning 54 1 of the fans to prevent the accumulation of dust. The 2 facility will be thoroughly pressure washed and 3 sanitized between each production cycle. This will 4 minimize also the odor-causing particles that are able 5 to leave the facility through ventilation fans. The 6 farm will ensure that the ventilation fans operate 7 efficiently also minimizing dust buildup. Regular and 8 routine facility maintenance is also known to reduce 9 odor concentration and odor intensity. 10 The facility will immediately incorporate an 11 animal diet formulated to allow the most efficient 12 use, utilization of proteins and nutrients in the 13 feed. This dietary practice aids in the production of 14 overall odors from the facility by reducing excess 15 nutrients excreted by the animals. 16 And the last part of any odor control plan is 17 the location. We believe this location is well suited 18 for this type of facility. It complies with and 19 exceeds with both facility setbacks as established by 20 the Livestock Management Facilities Act. The 21 residential setback was exceeded by 1,520 feet. The 22 populated area setback was exceeded by 6,840 feet. 23 Again, our overall comprehensive odor control 24 plan, farm location and maintenance, proper nutrition 55 1 and injection of manure. This is going to lead to a 2 diligently planned overall odor control strategy by 3 incorporating numerous odor control technologies and 4 techniques. The farm will also continuously look for 5 and incorporate other technologies as they become 6 available. This strategic plan incorporates 7 reasonable and innovative technologies that will allow 8 the facility to operate with minimal odor impact to 9 the surrounding area. 10 Citing criteria seven, traffic patterns. Here 11 we have a map detailing showing the -- in the center 12 of the screen the red rectangle is the location of the 13 facility perimeter. There is the private lane that 14 will access the facility from the township road. 15 There is the township road on the south end, and there 16 is the county road. 17 Those would be -- those are what they are 18 looking -- what we are looking at now is the proposed 19 traffic patterns for the feed trucks, for animal 20 transportation trucks leaving and coming to the 21 facility. We took a look at both the township road 22 and the county road to kind of give you an idea of how 23 many trucks were going to be -- you could, you know, 24 plan to see in a week and what kind of impact that 56 1 would have on that road. 2 Directly south of the proposed facility is 3 2300 Road, a daily average of 75 vehicles, a weekly 4 average of 525 vehicles. This facility would expect 5 seven vehicles a week. Four or five feed trucks a 6 week, one or two animal transportation type trucks a 7 week. South Morgan Acres will consist of about 1.3% 8 of the average daily vehicle traffic on this road. 9 If we go to a state highway, north and, sorry, 10 west of Raritan, daily average is 650 vehicles, weekly 11 average 4550 vehicles, 88% of those are personal 12 vehicles, cars, personal trucks, passenger vehicles, 13 12% of those are multiple unit vehicles. So we are 14 talking about single-axle trucks, tandem-axle trucks, 15 semi-trailer trucks. Again, we are talking about the 16 same amount of trucks from this facility, about seven 17 a week. 18 If we look on Illinois State Route 94, we are 19 about one and a quarter percent of the average daily 20 multiple unit trucks. So out of all of the single 21 axle, tandem axle and semi-trucks on this road, this 22 facility will have about one and a quarter percent of 23 those on a daily basis. 24 South Morgan Acres is ready to comply with the 57 1 same seasonal posted weight limits as all other 2 traffic in the area. 3 Citing criteria eight, is the facility 4 consistent with the area? We believe this farm is 5 consistent with the existing plan, community 6 development of this rural, agricultural area by being 7 -- by demonstrating compliance with zoning and setback 8 requirements, and this farm, as we have stated, will 9 meet all requirements listed within the Livestock 10 Management Facilities Act. 11 As stated before, I appreciate the opportunity 12 to be able to discuss with you the eight citing 13 criteria and demonstrate how we feel we have met each 14 one of those. Thank you. 15 HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Hollis, do you have 16 a comment? 17 DR. HOLLIS: Just before we close our 18 portion, if that's okay, I would like to share a 19 couple more comments and then turn it back over to the 20 owners, and we are done with our portion. 21 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. 22 DR. HOLLIS: If that's acceptable. 23 HEARING OFFICER: If it is brief, yes. 24 DR. HOLLIS: We will be very brief, yes. 58 1 First, I wanted to mention that Andy Johnson 2 actually started it, Steve Harris, I forgot that part. 3 Then he came to work with us. But we do want to be 4 your neighbors. We do want you to recognize, once 5 again, that it is about the people and who we are and 6 we want to service, about the pigs and our 7 responsibility to raise pigs in the area and do it 8 well, and it is about the neighbors and respecting 9 your concerns. 10 I will leave it at that, turn it over. 11 MR. FOWLER: Representing the owners 12 again, I was given a short bio of the other owners. 13 We all kind of found each other through PSM. This was 14 not a -- none of us knew each other before that time. 15 So I was looking through the bio. You know, 16 one of the owners is a fifth generation farmer. I'm 17 the fourth with my son the fifth and his son probably 18 being the sixth. Another one a third generation 19 farmer, Melvin a third generation farmer. 20 So this is -- we as owners are not big 21 corporate things that have just started or coming in 22 and are going to jump on this. We've been around a 23 long time. We're going to be around a long time. So 24 we are asking the county board here to come together 59 1 and support us on this endeavor. Thank you. 2 HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Krogmeier, did you 3 want to say anything? 4 MR. KROGMEIER: No. 5 HEARING OFFICER: All right. Thank you. 6 I have a copy of the presentation that was just given 7 here, so I'm going to enter into the record as Exhibit 8 #3 a county or copy, excuse me, of the facility's 9 presentation. 10 (Exhibit #3 marked for identification 11 and admitted.) 12 HEARING OFFICER: We will now open the 13 meeting for questions that you may have of the 14 facility or of the Department of Ag. If you have a 15 question that you would like to ask, please raise your 16 hand and when called upon, please state your name and 17 then spell your name for the court reporter. Please 18 indicate to whom you are directing your question. 19 I will remind you that this portion of the 20 meeting will be limited to questions only. After this 21 question and answer session, there will be a session 22 dedicated to public testimony where you can provide 23 your oral comments. So please limit this session to 24 questions only. 60 1 Right here, ma'am. 2 MS. DAVIS: Hello. My name is Christie 3 Davis, C-H-R-I-S-T-I-E, D A-V-I-S. 4 My question is actually to both people. Now, 5 it is my understanding that on October 4th, the IDOA 6 received the application to construct from this 7 organization; is that correct? 8 That's the number that I have down here they 9 received the application. 10 MR. GOETSCH: I believe that that is 11 correct, but let me confirm that. Yes, that's 12 correct. 13 MS. DAVIS: Thank you. So you also said 14 that you do not have a detailed plan for Morgan Acres; 15 is that correct? 16 MR. GOETSCH: Well -- 17 MS. DAVIS: You did not see one? 18 MR. GOETSCH: There are two applications, 19 if you will. The first is the notice of intent to 20 construct application, and that's what was received on 21 October 4th. 22 MS. DAVIS: Correct. 23 MR. GOETSCH: And then sometime after that 24 but before a final determination can be made, the 61 1 applicant must provide detailed construction plans and 2 specifications for each of the structures that they 3 are proposing. We have not yet received those. 4 MS. DAVIS: Right. So they have had two 5 months before this meeting and they have -- they say 6 they all have had history in pork production. I 7 wanted to know why in this public hearing we didn't 8 have an opportunity to have all of that available to 9 discuss. 10 We've been hearing about children and pigs and 11 all sorts of nice things and your hopes and your 12 dreams and your wishes to be good neighbors, but we 13 had no specific plan to discuss. I would like to know 14 why. You've had two months. 15 DR. HOLLIS: I will answer the first part. 16 We are working with both the owners on size and 17 specifications of what they want to build today and 18 then working with the engineers. I don't think it is 19 a problem for us to provide them with the department. 20 MR. WEST: As part of this process, those 21 will be submitted to the Department of Agriculture for 22 approval before we could start any construction 23 whatsoever. It is a lengthy process, though, to go 24 through a full design on these buildings. So they 62 1 will be done. They have not been submitted as of yet. 2 HEARING OFFICER: Ms. Hudson? 3 MS. HUDSON: My name is Karen Hudson, 4 H-U-D-S-O-N, and I appreciate the fact that you are 5 being honest and frank with us about wanting to be our 6 neighbors. I do not -- I appreciate the fact that you 7 are trying to establish a rapport with the neighbors. 8 I hope if this goes through that that continues, but I 9 have a two-part question. 10 You display a lot of photos to us, as the 11 previous person said, of children and baby pigs and 12 empty hog barns and even farrowing crates. We -- I 13 heard you say that you had 5,060 Easter eggs that you 14 gave out on Easter. 15 If you are that good with numbers, I have a 16 question. How many millions of gallons have you 17 calculated that this facility will produce? 18 We have come up with a rough estimate of over 19 6,175,000 gallons a year. I would like to know, is 20 that even close to what you are going to be producing? 21 We think it is probably about 600,000 gallon 22 septic tanks in the county going in. That's a lot of 23 waste. 24 And the second question is since we can't see 63 1 any of the plans, how is the county board supposed to 2 make an educated decision about this and say yes or no 3 when they know nothing about the construction? 4 All eight citing criteria are something you 5 want to meet, but it is hard for us to understand how 6 you will meet them since we don't see any of the 7 manure management plans or any of the drawings. 8 That's a concern for many people here. Thank you. 9 MR. WEST: Let me clear one thing up real 10 quick about your question. These facilities are 11 nowhere near what a septic tank is. A septic tank is 12 designed to leak, it is designed to -- 13 MS. HUDSON: I'm talking about quantity. 14 MR. WEST: You mentioned 600 or 6,000 15 septic tanks. It is not close. 16 HEARING OFFICER: Ma'am? Ms. Hudson, 17 let's receive an answer here first, and then if you 18 have questions, we will respond. 19 MR. WEST: That is a very important thing 20 that we need to make sure everybody is clear on. 21 These things are not designed to leak. Not designed 22 to. 23 So the gallonage, I think you are in the ball 24 park. I think that's close. 64 1 MS. HUDSON: Okay. The second question 2 was about the plans and drawings, and why not let us 3 see what your idea of a nutrient management plan would 4 be? 5 I know that's not required, but you said you 6 are going above and beyond in other areas which sounds 7 like a good thing, especially with your composting. 8 Why not go above and beyond and give us 9 numbers so we can actually look and see if it is 10 agronomically correct? 11 If the county board can look at that, that's 12 one thing that I think many people would like to see, 13 and how can any decision be made without all that 14 information? 15 MR. WEST: That's not -- that would not be 16 my decision. That would be -- that is a legal issue, 17 so you would -- you know, that's where it would need 18 to go to the legislators. That's not what the rules 19 say. 20 MS. HUDSON: I just -- my only point is 21 that we don't have enough information, if I was a 22 county board member, to really understand and see 23 construction plans. We have an engineer ready to 24 review them, but we don't see any. We just think 65 1 that's a problem. But thank you very much. 2 HEARING OFFICER: Ma'am, over here. 3 MS. HENRY: Alice Henry, H-E-N-R-Y. I am 4 a county board member, and I have exactly the same 5 question that was just posed by this lady. I will 6 address it to Mr. Goetsch. 7 How can a county board be expected to 8 intelligently make a recommendation to the Department 9 of Ag when we don't have any of this information? 10 We have none of these plans, we have no time 11 to evaluate these plans, and so my question is the 12 process. 13 MR. GOETSCH: I guess I can only say that, 14 you know, the law is the law, and it requires an 15 applicant to do certain things in a certain order. 16 Certainly it would be to the advantage of the 17 applicant to do more, but there is nothing in the 18 statute that requires them to do more than what they 19 have done. 20 I do think, though, that sometimes people get 21 hung up on a perceived detail which I don't know 22 really helps you make the -- how do I want to put it? 23 I believe in this particular application they have 24 given you the size of the facility, they have given 66 1 you the size of the individual buildings that they are 2 proposing, they have given you the dimensions of the 3 structures as they have proposed them, and if you 4 couple that with the requirements of the design 5 standards in the Livestock Management Facilities Act 6 and the department's assurance that any designs that 7 we would eventually approve, if that were to happen, 8 they would have to comply with those design standards, 9 I think that you have a significant amount of 10 information. 11 You, as a county board person, can only decide 12 whether you have adequate information, but I do 13 believe that you are being provided with a significant 14 amount of information about the design of the -- or 15 proposed design of the facility. 16 In a perfect world, yeah, I would agree that 17 it would be nice to have those final blueprints. 18 I think, though -- again, I am not trying to take 19 sides, but I can see on the facility's -- from the 20 facility's standpoint, the design or the preparation 21 of final design plans and specs is expensive, and if I 22 was an owner or proposed owner, I think I would be 23 concerned whether or not I had a viable site before I 24 spent, you know, tens of thousands of dollars to get 67 1 final design plans prepared for that site. 2 So I can see the challenge that an applicant 3 might have. On the one hand it would be in 4 everybody's best interest to have everything 5 available, but on the flip side, if you are the one 6 paying for it, I can see why you might be hesitant to 7 invest all of that information or all of that design 8 work when you are not sure whether you do have a 9 viable site. So you know, it is six in one, half a 10 dozen the other? 11 MS. HENRY: I do feel sometimes I am about 12 to buy a pig in a poke. Sorry about that. Thank you. 13 MR. GOETSCH: I guess let me just finish 14 by saying or finish by responding that the act is 15 certainly not perfect, and people have been pointing 16 out the blemishes and the perceived warts of this 17 statute for the last 16 years, but I have yet to hear 18 people give me or give not just me but give the 19 legislators specifics on how they might improve it. 20 It is a challenge. It is a challenge on both sides. 21 Sir, right here. 22 MR. ZELLMANN: My name is Bob Zellmann, 23 Z-E-L-L-M-A-N-N. This is directed to the management 24 of PSM. 68 1 What is PSM or the management or the owners of 2 this facility's procedure and policy on resolving odor 3 complaints from those living near their confinements, 4 and what evidence can you offer to demonstrate that 5 you act as a good neighbor and act responsibly and in 6 a timely manner to resolve those problems or 7 complaints? 8 DR. HOLLIS: Thank you for the question, 9 and it is a two-part question I believe. The first I 10 will speak for PSM as a management service company. 11 We would be the first response to hear that phone 12 call. In order to do that, we have to have a phone 13 number posted at the front of the farm, and we have to 14 have a relationship with the people that live around 15 the farm. We work to accomplish both of those. The 16 relationship we build with the people around the farm 17 starts now and continues for the life of the farm. 18 The posting things at the road and having a phone, 19 carrying the phone, having it available 24/7, all of 20 that is also critical. 21 The second part of that is so if there is an 22 odor concern, after we receive it and we address the 23 individual to find out what it is, we have people at 24 the farm every day. So there may be measurements of 69 1 water, is there sufficient water in the pit. We would 2 evaluate diets. We actually utilize diets that are 3 balanced for nitrogen so that there is not excess 4 nitrogen. We commonly utilize phytase which is 5 doesn't create odor but incidentally has something to 6 do with manure volume and then application, and then 7 we address it with operation of the facility and 8 understanding it. 9 The other part of it as well has to do with 10 the owners of the facility and the investment that 11 they have made in offering the facility. So we would 12 continue to communicate with the owners of the 13 facility about the concerns, and we would continue to 14 communicate with the neighbor about theirs and work to 15 manage them with those type of strategies. 16 MR. ZELLMANN: Do you have any evidence of 17 or can you show me in any way that you have resolved a 18 problem? 19 I mean, can you -- I'm going to be living 20 close to this facility. I would appreciate it if you 21 can show me some evidence rather than saying we have a 22 plan. 23 Is there any evidence that you have 24 successfully resolved these kind of issues with 70 1 complaints? 2 If I went around your facility, would I hear 3 good things or would I hear complaints? 4 DR. HOLLIS: I think you would hear both, 5 and I can appreciate your concern. I think you would 6 hear some people that have concerns about odor when we 7 apply the manure to the ground, and I think you would 8 have some people that would have concerns about odor 9 if it is a wet, humid, stale day. 10 Our response to both of those is to apply at 11 rates into the ground that the manure doesn't sit on 12 top but is in the ground. When the equipment turns a 13 corner, that gets a little bit tough. So there is 14 some drainage that may come out of that application 15 equipment as the equipment turns the corner and then 16 goes back into the ground, but we work to minimize 17 that with the contract hauler. 18 Bradshaw Pumping is the name of the equipment 19 hauler that we work with that does contract hauling. 20 Very professional group. Very clean equipment. Very 21 detailed records. 22 So I believe we are doing everything to the 23 level the industry and neighbors expect we can do. If 24 we can identify further improvements that are 71 1 effective, we will certainly work to implement them, 2 and I will work to meet you and understand what your 3 concerns are as well. 4 MR. ZELLMANN: My final -- I heard him 5 saying he was going to clean fans, other kinds of 6 things, but this facility has giant fans that push 7 this stuff out, and we are about to have a wind farm 8 built to take advantage of the wind there. I have a 9 feeling that whatever odors are there are going to be 10 transported very far, and I suspect you will have a 11 lot of complaints if there is any trouble. 12 HEARING OFFICER: Right there in front of 13 you, Brad. 14 MR. CONIGLIO: Tony Coniglio, McDonough 15 County Board, Macomb. I just want a short answer, not 16 a filibuster, sir. 17 HEARING OFFICER: Sir, can you spell your 18 last name, please? 19 MR. CONIGLIO: C-O-N-I-G-L-I-O, common 20 spelling. I couldn't resist. 21 I heard that there are some lawsuits pending 22 against the organization in other areas, is this true 23 or not true, involving the environment? 24 DR. HOLLIS: Are you asking about 72 1 Professional Swine Management or South Morgan? 2 MR. CONIGLIO: Swine Management. 3 DR. HOLLIS: South Morgan is a new 4 business, so new operation, new owners. 5 Lawsuits, yes. There is a farm that we 6 service that is being sued, and there is also a 7 lawsuit between the regulatory agencies and a group of 8 farms. 9 MR. CONIGLIO: Can you tell me what the 10 charges are? 11 DR. HOLLIS: What I would like to explain 12 are the examples that we shared earlier and how we 13 address them and explain that we have a long history 14 of compliance and that we have an ongoing relationship 15 with regulatory agencies to accomplish both what is in 16 the regulation, what is in the law and what is the 17 most appropriate means to comply with what they are 18 looking for. 19 MR. CONIGLIO: Okay. Thank you. 20 HEARING OFFICER: Gentleman in the green 21 shirt. 22 MR. HENRY: Bob Henry, H-E-N-R-Y. 23 Two questions, comments. One to the ag 24 department. This odor and some other things, you seem 73 1 to use qualitative rather than quantitative 2 interpretation. I think such words as reasonable. 3 Every group here, the owners, the neighbors, the 4 county board might have a different idea of what is 5 reasonable. So I suggest that you quit using 6 qualitative information and you put quantitative on 7 odors and other things. 8 The second comment is that engineer -- 9 HEARING OFFICER: Sir, do you have a 10 question for anybody up here? 11 MR. HENRY: The question is why don't you 12 use quantitative rather than qualitative information? 13 And the second comment is for the engineer. 14 The question is I -- you talk about karst and aquifer. 15 My question is I don't think I heard the word water 16 table. Water table is under all of that injection and 17 not far of the LaMoine River. I think the 18 possibilities of contamination of the water table and 19 drainage into the LaMoine River is a serious one, and 20 I ask why you didn't address that in more detail? 21 Thank you. 22 MR. WEST: Actually, sir, the water table 23 and the application of the manure will be fully 24 addressed within the comprehensive nutrient management 74 1 plan. We also address the water table in the 2 construction or the design of the facility itself. 3 HEARING OFFICER: Go ahead. 4 MR. WEST: That's -- I'm good. 5 HEARING OFFICER: Are you done? 6 MR. WEST: Yes. 7 HEARING OFFICER: Ma'am, right here. 8 MS. TWADDLE: My name is Laura Twaddle, 9 T-W-A-D-D-L-E. 10 In talking about water, I did not hear 11 anything addressing how you are going to supply these 12 animals with water, and because we do not have county 13 water out there, how are they going to receive that 14 water? 15 DR. HOLLIS: Thank you for the question. 16 The farm site has a pond on site that can be enlarged, 17 and that's the intent for the livestock. We commonly 18 use a wet well to pull water from the pond. We 19 chlorinate that pond water and utilize that for 20 livestock, and we will drill a well for the office. 21 MS. TWADDLE: How deep? How deep will the 22 well be? 23 DR. HOLLIS: I don't know that at this 24 point. 75 1 MS. ADAMS: My name is Barbara Ann Adams, 2 A-D-A-M-S. 3 I would like to ask a question of the 4 potential owners, or are you owners already? I guess 5 that's one question. Are you owners already of the 6 property? 7 MR. KROGMEIER: Of the property, no. 8 MS. ADAMS: But your owners are going to 9 invest in the property? 10 HEARING OFFICER: Could you come up front, 11 please? 12 MR. KROGMEIER: Your question, ma'am? 13 MS. ADAMS: Have you been out to the 14 property, walked over the property, seen how it lays 15 and -- 16 MR. KROGMEIER: Yes, yes, yes. 17 MS. ADAMS: Not just you, but all of the 18 other investors? 19 MR. KROGMEIER: I can't speak on behalf of 20 all of the other owners, but I was out there along 21 with three or four others one day, and we did walk the 22 property where the barns would sit, where they would 23 be constructed, saw the well or saw the pond. 24 MS. ADAMS: Okay. Did you drive down the 76 1 road on the west side of the property and see the 2 LaMoine River? That's where I am heading. 3 MR. KROGMEIER: I saw a lot of trees. I 4 didn't see any river. 5 MS. ADAMS: Well, it says on the map 6 LaMoine River. I'm calling it the LaMoine River. 7 Well, that property is up here. There is a 8 big, steep drop-off, and on your map it shows like 9 this is 750 up here, the bridge is down here at 713, 10 12 more feet down is the riverbed. It just looks like 11 it is an accident waiting to happen to build something 12 like a hog confinement up there. 13 HEARING OFFICER: Do you have a question? 14 MS. ADAMS: I'm asking if he knows that, 15 if the investors know that this is in a dangerous 16 location. 17 MR. KROGMEIER: We're familiar with the 18 location. We think it is an excellent location, and 19 that's why we hired the engineering firms to follow-up 20 to make sure that this is a good location. 21 HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Hudson? 22 MR. HUDSON: Howard Hudson, H-U-D-S-O-N. 23 I have three short questions. I heard, I 24 heard them speak that there is a concentration of hogs 77 1 in Iowa from a farmer and in Minnesota, so they want 2 to come down here to use our clean air. So there is 3 transmission of disease for their hogs. But what I 4 haven't -- the question that I have for them is what 5 about the health of the neighbors? 6 There are going to be immunocompromised 7 children and immunocompromised adults living close to 8 these facilities. The question is will you be 9 sufficiently bonded in case of future lawsuits because 10 of their health damage? 11 The second question is I saw up on the screen 12 that they were talking about -- PSM is talking of 13 using advanced technology for odor. Biofilters are 14 used extensively in Iowa. Can -- will they be used 15 here, and if they aren't, why not? 16 And the third and final question is for the 17 vet. Do you, your wife and children live one-quarter 18 of a mile from a facility pumping out thousands of 19 gallons of hydrogen sulphide and ammonia every day? 20 DR. HOLLIS: I think three questions. If 21 I miss one, let me know. But I think the initial 22 question is a bit baited and mischaracterized. So the 23 -- I forgotten what it is. The disease. Thank you. 24 PRRS virus is not zoonotic. PRRS virus is why these 78 1 fellas would like to have this farm located where it 2 is. The PRRS virus is a swine virus that has a great 3 deal of activity in Iowa and Minnesota today. There 4 are farms in Illinois, farms that we service that 5 struggle with porcine reproductive and respiratory 6 syndrome. It is not zoonotic which means it is not 7 able to be picked up and infected and moved with 8 people. Doesn't infect people at all. That's what 9 their intent and that was their comment on pig 10 disease. 11 I forget question two. Question number three. 12 MR. HUDSON: Biofilters. 13 DR. HOLLIS: Biofilters. We have a client 14 who has used biofilters and not found them to be 15 effective, but I can't speak for South Morgan. I can 16 only speak for myself and for PSM that we're in this 17 for the long haul. We are going to continue to 18 evaluate what is the best technology and most 19 appropriate. Biofilters are under investigation. 20 They are not proven, and so that's really where I 21 would see it today. 22 The last one about our home, no, I think for 23 the PRRS reason, I am not going to be living within a 24 quarter mile, but we picked our house 15 years ago, 79 1 and that's where we would like to stay. 2 HEARING OFFICER: Yes, right here. 3 MR. CLARK: Richard Clark, C-L-A-R-K. 4 I have a question for Mr. West. You tell us 5 about the percentage of traffic daily and weekly on 6 these roads up there at Raritan. 7 Can you tell me what the or tell us what the 8 traffic will be in the construction of these 9 buildings, and won't it take several months to 10 construct these? 11 MR. WEST: The construction season will 12 last awhile. Several months I think is a bit long. 13 MR. CLARK: How many months? Give me a 14 better figure than that, not several. A year? 15 MR. WEST: Counting winter, no, we are 16 probably talking about six months. 17 MR. CLARK: Okay. Now, tell me -- 18 MR. WEST: Counting winter. 19 MR. CLARK: Now, tell me the 20 percentage the traffic will be? 21 MR. WEST: The one thing that these 22 facilities do is they put a concrete batch plant at 23 the site so there will not be concrete trucks. 24 MR. CLARK: That's another thing. 80 1 HEARING OFFICER: Sir, let him finis the 2 answer, please. 3 MR. WEST: So up front you are correct. 4 You are going to see more trucks than you would during 5 the normal operation of this facility, but that is a 6 very short-lived time frame. 7 MR. CLARK: Okay. The other question I'm 8 going to ask you, you brought it up. You're talking 9 about a cement factory. How do you get sand and 10 gravel for cement there? 11 You still got to bring them in by trucks, and 12 it takes more trucks to do that than it does to haul 13 the cement, bigger trucks, bigger loads; am I right? 14 MR. WEST: Fewer loads is what I would 15 say. 16 MR. CLARK: Pardon me? 17 MR. WEST: Fewer loads. 18 MR. CLARK: How many loads will it take to 19 make -- I mean it takes bigger loads to make up the 20 littler loads. 21 MR. WEST: I can't tell you today how many 22 loads is going to be happening during the construction 23 of these barns. I don't have that number in my head. 24 MR. CLARK: But several? 81 1 MR. WEST: It will be several, sure. 2 MR. CLARK: Okay. Thank you. 3 I think this county board should be concerned 4 about the roads, too, because our roads in this county 5 are in bad shape. 6 HEARING OFFICER: Right behind that 7 gentleman. 8 MR. GRUVER: The name is Joel Gruver, 9 G-R-U-V-E-R. 10 Just a couple questions for Mr. West regarding 11 the manure production. Is it correct that the total 12 gallons of manure will probably exceeded 6 million per 13 year? 14 MR. WEST: You know, I stated I miss -- I 15 agreed with Mrs. Hudson. I think that's the general 16 ball park. I think that's probably in the ball park. 17 I have not run the numbers all of the way yet, but I 18 think we're in that ball park. 19 MR. GRUVER: Okay. What would be your 20 estimated pounds of P205 per thousand gallons? Just a 21 ball park number pounds of phosphate per thousand 22 gallons. Are we talking about 20, 30, 10? Just give 23 me a rough number. 24 Okay. I can assume, then, a number if you 82 1 don't have a number. 2 What would be the amount of phosphorus that 3 would be typically taken up by 175 bushels of corn? 4 MR. WEST: I can't tell you that right off 5 the top of my head. 6 MR. GRUVER: Okay. Thank you. 7 HEARING OFFICER: The lady in the striped 8 sweater. 9 MS. LINK: Maggie Link, L-I-N-K. 10 I am someone who travels County Road 11 daily 11 and 2300 on a daily basis. The $6,000 in taxes that 12 you will pay to the county a year is not going to 13 cover to repair those roads on an annual basis. 14 Are you prepared to pay for repairing those 15 roads? 16 DR. HOLLIS: That's, again, a fair 17 question. The farm is only asking to be treated the 18 same as any other business, and so Mr. Callahan was 19 good enough to meet with another partner of mine and I 20 this morning. We have already talked about the 21 requirements if there is damage to the roads that 22 could require that they be posted, and our feed 23 supplier has let us know that they already have a 24 relationship with the county engineer. 83 1 Your question of if they're destroyed, I 2 think, is a bit premature because we have farms in 3 many other areas that have not destroyed roads 4 respecting that seal coat roads have some more risk. 5 We also talked to Mr. Callahan about the base. 6 He feels like the base on the county road -- shouldn't 7 speak for you. I'm sorry. But we believe the base on 8 the county road is going to be considerably greater, 9 and we are fortunate that the base on the township 10 road is in a very good location. 11 So those two things we feel are on our side, 12 but yeah, we expect to be treated the same as any 13 other business. 14 HEARING OFFICER: Next one in line there 15 in the red vest? 16 MS. TERRELL: Jackie Terrell, 17 T-E-R-R-E-L-L. 18 I have a couple of questions. I wanted to 19 know if the facility will be staffed 24 hours a day 20 and about your compost pile you were talking about, if 21 that is going to be accessible to coyotes or dogs to 22 be hauling those carcasses out? 23 DR. HOLLIS: Our production teams 24 generally will start their day at six and end their 84 1 day at three or four, and then there are some shifts 2 that will come a little earlier or a little later, but 3 it will not be 24/7 with production teams. 4 We do have in many of the farms and we 5 anticipate with South Morgan on-site generator with an 6 automatic transfer, on-site alarm system that includes 7 both the incoming and outgoing doors, includes the 8 power and an emergency management plan that 9 automatically phone dials. All of the farms will also 10 have a computer on site and camera surveillance. So 11 we are trying to do the best that we can to be 12 prepared, but no, we don't have farm staff on site 13 24/7. 14 MS. TERRELL: What about the compost 15 piles? 16 DR. HOLLIS: I'm sorry. I forgot he 17 compost. Yes, the compost is a three-sided solid all 18 of the way concrete structure with open at the front 19 but gates at the front. So unless I missed anything 20 that somebody else can speak to later in the comment 21 period. And we will do our best to keep varmints out. 22 We don't want varmints anywhere near the farm. It is 23 a disease risk to the pigs. 24 HEARING OFFICER: Lady in the third row 85 1 here. 2 MS. MOORE: Thank you. I would like a 3 follow-up question. 4 HEARING OFFICER: Could I have your name 5 please? 6 MS. MOORE: Karen Moore, M-O-O-R-E. We 7 live between a mile and three-fourths and about two 8 miles northeast of the proposed facility. 9 My question is about the pond that you 10 mentioned earlier. I don't remember how many gallons 11 of water you mentioned you will be using, but do you 12 really believe that pond will be capable of taking 13 care of all your water needs for your pigs? 14 There is a possibility that this may be a 15 spring-fed pond, and we do know by being neighbors to 16 this that there is field tile that leads to this pond. 17 So we have concerns, water concerns right here. 18 Also, there is a gravel pit back behind in there. 19 Does that concern -- will that concern karst problems? 20 I am not sure. 21 Also there are gullies that run up close to 22 the facility from the LaMoine Creek. Won't that 23 encourage more run-off down to the creek? 24 DR. HOLLIS: I will address the water 86 1 question, and then I will let Mr. West address the 2 other questions. 3 First on the pond, no, I think we have had a 4 really tough year this year for ponds. I mean, the 5 summer was brutal on pond water. So yeah, we will 6 drill a well. We will enlarge the pond the best that 7 we can, and we will work with many of you to bring 8 rural water if that becomes an option, but our intent 9 is to have the office and the livestock on the drilled 10 well but primarily that office because of showers that 11 are in every one of our facilities and the kitchen. 12 So no, that's a fair question, and water is 13 certainly available in that area, and water from that 14 pond will be utilized. But I respect the question 15 because we've had a brutal year for ponds. 16 MS. MOORE: How deep will the wells be, do 17 you know? 18 DR. HOLLIS: I'm sorry. I don't have all 19 that information today. 20 MR. WEST: I will try to address the 21 remaining two items. You mentioned, the tiles, field 22 tiles going potentially into the pond or at least from 23 the area. 24 One of the requirements that we are required 87 1 to do when we design and construct these facilities, 2 there can be no field tiles within 50 feet of any of 3 these structures. So we are required to do an 4 investigation and find out if there are some. Then if 5 we find some, then we remove them and remove them back 6 and cap them so they are at least 50 feet away from 7 the structure. That is, that is a potential valid 8 concern. That is something that we routinely look 9 for. What was -- 10 MS. MOORE: Gravel pit and the gullies. 11 MR. WEST: Okay. That's correct. Your 12 question was gullies and then transferring manure to 13 the LaMoine River. 14 MS. MOORE: That are closer to the 15 facility than the river. 16 MR. WEST: Well, that would be, that would 17 be a really good point if we had animals that were 18 outside on the ground so that rainfall would hit that 19 manure and take that through the gullies. These 20 animals are all within, all under a roof, all inside. 21 There would be no manure out on the ground that 22 rainfall could be in contact with and then transfer 23 that through those gullies. 24 MS. MOORE: I do have a follow-up 88 1 question. 2 MR. WEST: Yes, ma'am. 3 MS. MOORE: How does these -- how do these 4 facilities impact plugged or abandoned wells in the 5 area? 6 MR. WEST: That's another thing that we 7 have to, if there is one close, then we would be 8 required to close it. 9 HEARING OFFICER: Gentlemen in the black 10 shirt. 11 MR. WEISS: My name is Matt Weiss, 12 W-E-I-S-S. 13 So there have been a lot of questions from 14 concerned citizens about water contamination, so my 15 question is -- I mean, you have answered with, you 16 know, facilities are built to code and, you know, we 17 take care of these issues, so that's preparation. 18 What if something happens? Technological 19 disasters do occur. I mean, that cannot be ignored. 20 I stress that it can't be ignored. 21 So what type of contingency plans do you have 22 available for this site, and will they be made public? 23 And I am, you know, I'm specifying this with regards 24 to the water contamination issues. 89 1 MR. WEST: When I talked earlier about the 2 comprehensive nutrient management plan, one of the 3 items that makes a comprehensive nutrient management 4 plan different from a nutrient management plan is the 5 vast amount of record keeping that we are required to 6 maintain for this facility. One of those pieces of 7 information is a regular facility walk-around 8 inspection. So that would be the first level of 9 defense is to make certain that we have eyes on the 10 facilities to see if for some reason we have a leak 11 somewhere or if there is cracking, so forth. If 12 that's the case, it would be immediately fixed, 13 immediately fixed because as is different from most 14 industries, this industry is not allowed to have a 15 release. So we are not allowed to have one. 16 So we design it so that we don't. If there is 17 ever the case that there is an accident or something 18 would occur, we fix it. We fix it in a way that we 19 don't have to deal with it going forward. 20 HEARING OFFICER: Blue sweater right here 21 in the aisle. 22 MS. McMEEKAN: Hello. My name is Heather 23 McMeekan, M-C-M-E-E-K-A-N. 24 This question is for Mr. West. When did you 90 1 do your soil boring, and was it a single point test or 2 did you conduct multiple tests? 3 I guess the third part of that was, was the 4 area in drought status during that test or no? 5 MR. WEST: No, it was not. Actually we 6 did the soil borings last week, and we did multiple, 7 multiple borings across the site. 8 MS. McMEEKAN: Okay. Have you conducted 9 any in the spring when the rains come? 10 MR. WEST: No, we did the site 11 investigation last week. 12 MS. McMEEKAN: Only last week. Okay. 13 This next question is for PSM. How many 14 complaints annually do you get total for all your 15 facilities from neighbors, annual amount? 16 DR. HOLLIS: I don't know the answer to 17 that question. I don't know the answer to that 18 question. 19 MS. McMEEKAN: Can you give us a ball 20 park? 21 DR. HOLLIS: Boy, that's -- it is -- I 22 really can't because I just don't have any idea. 23 MS. McMEEKAN: How about one farm? Can 24 you give us how many complaints annually for one of 91 1 your farms, your best farm? 2 DR. HOLLIS: Well, our best farm would 3 have zero, but I would say that you are asking a 4 question that is difficult for me to collect it all 5 because there is 26 different farms, 26 different 6 locations. We don't centralize it all. If I have a 7 farm manager that receives a complaint at the end of 8 the driveway and it is addressed immediately, that's a 9 win for everybody. So I don't have an answer for your 10 question. 11 MS. McMEEKAN: Excuse me, but you have 12 said that you give excellent records and record 13 keeping, and so that's why I believe I could get that 14 information. But that's okay. I will move to the 15 next question. 16 Do you test the waste water for antibiotic 17 resistant genetic material, and are you aware that the 18 U of I released a report saying that they found a lot 19 of antibiotic resistant genetic material in ground 20 water surrounding CAFO's and that that is not filtered 21 out, of course, through aquifers naturally and 22 presents a risk to the people who have wells around 23 there and should it get downstream to us, in 24 particular the tetracycline versions? 92 1 DR. HOLLIS: No, we don't test the manure 2 for genetically modified antibiotic resistance, but we 3 do not use feed grade antibiotics very often, if at 4 all, at South Farms. It is very rare, and there are 5 not feed grade antibiotics utilized as a routine in 6 sow facilities which South Morgan Acres is a sow 7 facility. So I believe it was University of Iowa, not 8 Illinois. 9 MS. McMEEKAN: I may have misread that. 10 My mistake. 11 DR. HOLLIS: Yeah, and it was a concern of 12 feed grade antibiotics which is not relevant to South 13 Morgan Acres. 14 MS. McMEEKAN: Okay. My last question, 15 then, is do you use -- if you don't use antibiotics so 16 much, do you use any endocrine -- possibly endocrine 17 disrupting hormones in growth production that could be 18 excreted in manure and then put into the fields 19 surrounding there where they could leach into the 20 ground water during high flow rains such as we've been 21 getting the last few years? 22 DR. HOLLIS: No. 23 MS. McMEEKAN: Thank you. 24 HEARING OFFICER: You have already asked. 93 1 Lady here in the second row. 2 MS. MISFELDT: Hi, this is -- 3 HEARING OFFICER: Came you give your name? 4 MS. MISFELDT: Sorry, Terry VanMeenen, 5 V-A-N-M-E-E-N-E-N, Misfeldt, M-I-S-F-E-L-D-T. 6 This is for PSM. You talked a lot about 7 neighbors tonight. I was wondering if you could tell 8 me what the average percentage rate of property 9 depreciation for neighbors of comparative facilities 10 would be? 11 DR. HOLLIS: You are asking -- I'm going 12 to restate the question because I think I understand. 13 You are asking will property values go down. If they 14 do, what is an average. No, I don't have that data, 15 I'm sorry. 16 HEARING OFFICER: Gentleman next to her. 17 MR. COVERT: Allen Covert, C-O-V-E-R-T. 18 What is the expected life of this building you 19 are going to put up, and how will it be decommissioned 20 at the end of its use? 21 DR. HOLLIS: We would like to believe that 22 we can maintain them for remodeling. The structural 23 life is easily 15 because we have got facilities just 24 like this construction that are over 15 years old. My 94 1 intent would be to do this for at least another 20. 2 I'm 43. So it is not our intent for this to be a 3 short-lived operation, and we believe that there is a 4 useful life as long as the facility is designed so 5 that it can stay relevant to the industry. I think it 6 is. It has a very good structure in terms of concrete 7 and steel, and it has a purpose in terms of producing 8 baby pigs that these farmers want for their farms. 9 Thanks for the question. 10 MR. COVERT: What about decommissioning? 11 DR. HOLLIS: I don't know what we would 12 do with the building 20 years from now, but hopefully 13 we will figure out a way to keep it going. 14 MR. COVERT: North Carolina had that 15 problem. 16 MS. MARTIN: Kathy Martin, K-A-T-H-Y, 17 M-A-R-T-I-N. 18 Two questions. Warren Goetsch, is there a 19 permeability restriction on concrete manure storage? 20 MR. GOETSCH: Yes, I believe -- I 21 apologize. I can't -- I don't recall whether it is 22 ten to the minus sixth or ten to the minus -- I 23 believe it is ten to the minus six centimeters per 24 second. 95 1 MS. MARTIN: Is that a permeability or 2 seepage rate? 3 MR. GOETSCH: It is a permeability. 4 MS. MARTIN: So if we were looking at one 5 of the barns, Chris West, my question to you, assuming 6 permeability, allowable permeability of ten to the 7 minus six and a maximum depth of liquid ten feet, half 8 a foot concrete on the bottom of the pit, right, would 9 the -- have you ever calculated the allowable seepage 10 out of one of your pits? 11 MR. WEST: No, I have not. 12 MS. MARTIN: Okay. 13 MR. WEST: The reason for that, I don't 14 believe that exists, seepage through the bottom of the 15 floor. 16 MS. MARTIN: But the law allows you to 17 seep manure up to a certain amount. 18 MR. WEST: No, it does not allow you to 19 seep manure. 20 MS. MARTIN: Yes, it does allow you to 21 have a very high permeability in concrete. 22 MR. GOETSCH: I think you are making a 23 misapplication of that standard. That's a 24 construction standard, that's not an estimate of 96 1 whether material would move through it or not. It is 2 the design standard that a facility must meet to 3 construct that structure. It is not a guarantee that 4 there will be X number of gallons of manure moving 5 through that concrete structure just like it is not a 6 guarantee if it was an earthen structure constructed 7 to a certain hydraulic conductivity rate. But that 8 seems to be a misapplication that a lot of people try 9 and make to that standard. It is a design standard, 10 it is a construction standard, it is not a guarantee 11 of manure release. 12 MS. MARTIN: Okay. Well, first of all, 13 I'm a professional engineer in civil engineering, 14 okay? 15 Two, I wrote permits for many years in the 16 State of Oklahoma, okay, and I understand how rules 17 can be used, and that is an allowable, that's an 18 allowable permeability, and ten to the minus six is 19 similar to sidewalk permeability. It is not a low 20 permeability that you would expect for manure storage. 21 Allowable seepage, I don't want to be -- 22 HEARING OFFICER: Ms. Martin, do you have 23 a question? 24 MS. MARTIN: Yes. So have you calculated 97 1 what would be allowed to leak or seep through cracks 2 in your concrete before you would be in violation of 3 the law? 4 MR. WEST: And I believe I have already 5 answered that question. 6 MS. MARTIN: So you have not considered 7 that? 8 MR. WEST: I don't believe that that 9 happens the way you are -- 10 MS. MARTIN: Your concrete never cracks, 11 it never leaks? 12 MR. WEST: That's not the same question 13 that you are answering -- that you are asking, excuse 14 me. 15 MS. MARTIN: No, it actually is. 16 MR. WEST: No. I will answer your 17 question by saying no, I have not. 18 MR. GOETSCH: I would also, I guess, like 19 to add, because I don't want people to get the wrong 20 or get a misunderstanding here in that there is also 21 requirements as part of the design standards for a 22 perimeter drain tile to be included in the design 23 which also includes quarterly monitoring of any 24 effluent that might be connected or might be collected 98 1 by that perimeter drain tile and then tested to 2 determine whether or not there is a release occurring. 3 So I guess what I'm trying to say is there are 4 more than one -- there is more than one little part to 5 the design standards here, and regardless of what your 6 opinion is, you need to look at all of those 7 requirements to appropriately judge a proposed design. 8 MS. MARTIN: Could I have a follow-up on 9 your perimeter tile? 10 HEARING OFFICER: Yes, go ahead. Wait for 11 the microphone. 12 MS. MARTIN: In this facility, doesn't 13 that perimeter tile discharge to the open air, so 14 therefore it would go right into that drainage and the 15 creek river system? 16 MR. GOETSCH: Not necessarily. Again, I 17 think your -- 18 MS. MARTIN: It would not flow downhill? 19 MR. GOETSCH: The requirement, depending 20 upon the site, in some cases the perimeter drain tile 21 is required to drain to daylight. In other cases when 22 that's not possible, it drains to a sump which then 23 has to be pumped to some location. The point, though, 24 that I am trying to make and that you seem to be very 99 1 interested in trying to avoid is that anything 2 collected in that drain tile is required to be 3 collected and analyzed on a quarterly basis and 4 analyzed for certain analytes which are normally 5 attributable to livestock waste. 6 The intent is -- and this is why it was 7 included by the Pollution Control Board which is the 8 entity that signed off on the rules for the 9 construction standards in the Livestock Management 10 Facilities Act. The intent was to provide a way of 11 assuring or reassuring or determining, excuse me, 12 whether or not any release was occurring from a 13 facility. 14 MS. MARTIN: So you are saying there is 15 zero release from the facility? You will not allow 16 even one ounce of pollution from the pits? 17 MR. GOETSCH: What I'm saying is the 18 design standard for these facilities is zero discharge 19 facility. 20 MS. MARTIN: Surface but not ground water? 21 MR. GOETSCH: Zero discharge facility. I 22 don't know I can say it much clearer than that. 23 MS. MARTIN: So the pits cannot leak to 24 the ground water? 100 1 MR. GOETSCH: Zero discharge facility, Ms. 2 Martin. 3 HEARING OFFICER: Let's take the next 4 question. Move over this way. Gentleman here in 5 second row in the back. 6 MR. THOMPSON: My name is Scott Thompson, 7 T-H-O-M-P-S-O-N. 8 The previous question about the environmental 9 actions that have been taken against PSM, I think the 10 answer is maybe a little vague for the county board to 11 make a decision and neighbors to make a decision on. 12 Granted you have 26 operating facilities. 13 Could you tell us specifically what the charges are at 14 facilities within western Illinois? 15 DR. HOLLIS: It is a bit of a box you are 16 putting me into. I respect the question. I can 17 explain the process and I can explain the process 18 includes the -- 19 MR. THOMPSON: I want the charges filed by 20 the Attorney General, State of Illinois. 21 DR. HOLLIS: I understand that, but no, I 22 can't go into each of those. It is -- 23 MR. THOMPSON: Give me one. 24 DR. HOLLIS: -- it is a pending discussion 101 1 between the Illinois Attorney General and those eight 2 farms, so -- 3 MR. THOMPSON: It is public record. I 4 have -- 5 HEARING OFFICER: Sir, let him finish the 6 answer first. 7 DR. HOLLIS: No, I believe that South 8 Morgan Acres is responsible to provide the Illinois 9 Department of Agriculture with all of the data that 10 they need to evaluate that operation, and the public 11 hearing process is allowed to provide both the county 12 board and the neighbors the opportunity to hear as 13 much as we can share and to ask questions. The 14 specific answers you want, I don't have. 15 MR. THOMPSON: Would I be allowed to 16 submit these into the record for the meeting, then? 17 HEARING OFFICER: Could you repeat that, 18 please? 19 MR. THOMPSON: Would the charges from the 20 Attorney General, State of Illinois pending cases 21 perhaps against Professional Swine Management, may we 22 submit those into the record at this public hearing 23 since he can't arrive or can't disclose personally the 24 specific charges? 102 1 HEARING OFFICER: If you have public 2 information that you would like to submit, we will 3 accept it as written testimony. 4 MR. THOMPSON: I would be glad to do that 5 later. 6 HEARING OFFICER: Gentleman in the striped 7 shirt. 8 MR. WALLER: I'm Earl Waller, W-A-L-L-E-R, 9 and I know you met with Bill Callahan, but what about 10 the other surrounding townships? Am I to understand 11 that you are going to stay on 2300 in Blandinsville 12 Township and Blandinsville Blacktop and that way you 13 will stay on designated roads with your feed and 14 hauling of the equipment or hauling of the livestock 15 and also your waste contractor would stay on 16 designated roads? 17 DR. HOLLIS: No, I don't know exactly what 18 roads will be taken by everybody coming to the farm. 19 No, I can't identify specifically that, but what we 20 are trying to do is outline the number of trucks, 21 approximately seven trucks a week and identify the 22 majority of the traffic and compare that to current. 23 MR. WALLER: Okay. Would you guys sign a 24 bond in case any road was destroyed that you guys -- 103 1 we can get you guys to purchase a bond that would 2 cover the destruction of the roads? 3 DR. HOLLIS: No, I don't think that that 4 is something that we have discussed or would even be 5 at liberty to agree to tonight. 6 HEARING OFFICER: Lady in the maroon. 7 MS. ARGENBRIGHT: Christine Argenbright, 8 C-H-R-I-S-T-I-N-E, A-R-G-E-N-B-R-I-G-H-T. 9 You mentioned earlier about emergency and 10 contingency plans. Can you tell us what the emergency 11 plans are in the event of a fire or some other kind of 12 disaster? 13 DR. HOLLIS: Yes, and at the risk of 14 sounding like a filibuster, I want to tell you that 15 we have had these experiences. So Professional Swine 16 Management has had farms that have burnt to the 17 ground, and it is a horrible disaster, and we had 18 every one of the owners there at the middle of the 19 night and some of them were from Missouri, and we also 20 spent weeks and weeks and weeks at the farm. 21 What we would do -- and I don't know what the 22 disaster would be, but what we would do is we put all 23 the resources to -- we've got five production 24 supervisors you saw. There is actually 15 104 1 veterinarians at Carthage Veterinary Service. There 2 is four veterinarians as owners in Professional Swine 3 Management. We've got other veterinarians that are 4 good friends of ours in the neighborhood. So we'd 5 pull all the resources we can. I don't want to sound 6 like I'm going on too much. 7 MS. ARGENBRIGHT: Would any of these 8 buildings -- do you have an automatic alarm system in 9 case of a fire? 10 DR. HOLLIS: Yes, we do. Yes. I 11 appreciate the question. 12 HEARING OFFICER: Ms. Hudson in the back. 13 MS. HUDSON: I have a question regarding 14 all of the citing criteria, and I would like to set 15 the record straight, and would I be allowed to do 16 that? This is to Mr. Goetsch. 17 HEARING OFFICER: What are you talking 18 about setting the record straight? Do you have a 19 question? 20 MS. HUDSON: Yes, that's my question. 21 Can I do that? I want to make a statement about the 22 eight citing criteria. 23 Every single one of them including odor 24 controls reasonable, we have been lobbying our 105 1 legislators since 1996. 2 HEARING OFFICER: Ma'am, do you have a 3 question? 4 MS. HUDSON: Yes, I do. Are you aware of 5 the pit study in Michigan showing sodium and other 6 materials leaking from pits? 7 We have a lot of research on pits. We'd be 8 willing to share that with you. We do have rebar now, 9 and I am sure you are going to be using those, 10 correct? 11 MR. WEST: Are we going to be using rebar? 12 MS. HUDSON: Yes. 13 MR. WEST: Yes, there will be steel 14 reinforcement. 15 MS. HUDSON: When we started they didn't, 16 and we are glad that you are doing that. You have to 17 do that by law now. 18 But I just wanted to set the record straight 19 that we have tried to fix this law for many, many, 20 many years. Thank you. 21 HEARING OFFICER: Come up to the front 22 here. Gentleman on the end. 23 MR. FOWLER: Hello. My name is Kurt 24 Fowler, K-U-R-T, F-O-W-L-E R. Hi, Ron, over there. 106 1 So Ron, I appreciate that you are farming in 2 Minnesota, and I just wish you would stay in 3 Minnesota, but I have a question. 4 I would like to see the consistent with area 5 slide. You've shown it in a couple of different 6 PowerPoints, and both times I must read really slow, 7 but, you know, I just can't read it fast enough. That 8 slide has been up there a very long time. So can you 9 show that consistent with the area slide? 10 HEARING OFFICER: Which particular slide 11 are you asking about? Is it text, is it pictures? 12 MR. FOWLER: It was all text. 13 HEARING OFFICER: Who gave that 14 presentation? 15 MR. FOWLER: I believe the farmers over 16 there. 17 HEARING OFFICER: It was Mr. West or Mr. 18 Hollis. 19 MR. FOWLER: Well, I think it is here in 20 the handout, but, you know, I just would like to see 21 it. Construction or modification of new facility is 22 consistent with existing community growth, tourism, 23 recreation or economic development or with specific 24 projects involving community growth, tourism, 107 1 recreation or economic development. 2 I really don't see a lot of tourists coming to 3 your facility, so I don't think it is going to be 4 consistent with tourism. 5 That area has been known for hunting for a 6 very long time, and I grew up in that area. I have 7 hunted in those Woods, and it is very -- yes, I do 8 have a question, sir. Yes, it is a very highly valued 9 wildlife area, and you said that varmints carry 10 disease and you would do your best by maybe putting 11 gates on compost. Well, growing up on a farm, I can 12 tell you gates don't keep varmints out. 13 HEARING OFFICER: Do you have a question? 14 MR. FOWLER: Yes, I do. So how are you 15 going to keep varmints out? 16 I, myself, have even seen a wolf in the area, 17 my sister saw a wolf in the area and one of my school 18 teachers had saw a wolf in that area. 19 DR. HOLLIS: Fair question, Mr. Fowler. I 20 would like to continue the communication after the 21 farm is built with you so that you can help us. By 22 saying that, I'm not being facetious. We have, we 23 have farmers that hunt around farms that we service 24 today, and there is a couple guys here tonight that I 108 1 don't know if they got time to stay, but they can 2 address it in a lot better detail than I can that how 3 we have not impacted their deer hunting or turkey 4 hunting, so forth and how hunters provide a good deal 5 of information for us, that being feral swine which 6 was my biggest concern and wolves which are yours. So 7 we can, we can collect information from hunters in the 8 neighborhood, and we'd like to continue that 9 relationship. 10 HEARING OFFICER: Yes, the lady right next 11 to him. Do you remember your question? 12 MS. ADAMS: Well, this is for the owners. 13 Well, I guess owners, whatever. It was called South 14 Morgan Acres. 15 HEARING OFFICER: Excuse me. State your 16 name again, please. 17 MS. ADAMS: Barbara Ann Adams, A-D-A-M-S. 18 I was wondering why, on the application, when I call 19 that telephone number that's listed for the owner and 20 operator, I get a person who says he doesn't know 21 anything about it. 22 Why wasn't this something that -- that number 23 should be for information, I would think. 24 DR. HOLLIS: Mrs. Adams, you have got a 109 1 great question. I know Dr. Groth called you to talk 2 to you about the project after you received the 3 information of the notice of intent, and we were 4 working with Dolores Butler and Phil Butler who wanted 5 to sell some farm ground, and so we have to respect 6 the interests of the landowner that wants to sell farm 7 ground and respect the interests of owners that want 8 to build a hog farm when nobody knows if any of it is 9 going to happen in the first place. 10 MS. ADAMS: Well, why didn't you put your 11 telephone number on there if you were involved in it? 12 If they didn't want to have their telephone 13 number on it, why didn't you have your telephone 14 number on it so we could have got information? 15 DR. HOLLIS: The quick answer is going to 16 sound like a smart-aleck. I apologize for the quick 17 answer up front. But my name was in the paper for 18 about a month a few months back. So putting my name 19 on that would not have helped the situation one bit. 20 MS. ADAMS: It didn't help the situation 21 to have somebody answer the phone and say I can't tell 22 you anything, I just pick up the mail. 23 DR. HOLLIS: I respect concern. I 24 apologize for the confusion, but I believe that we 110 1 called you and were doing the best we can to 2 communicate today to help with the situation. 3 HEARING OFFICER: Yes, right there. 4 MR. SULLIVAN: My name is Bill Sullivan, 5 B-I-L-L, S-U-L-L-I-V-A-N. 6 I have got three questions. I'm concerned 7 about my property value, which I think after you put 8 this up, from what we've heard, could decrease from 40 9 to 70 as high as 90%. I'm very concerned about it. 10 I've also -- Doctor, I'd like to ask you, I 11 have live in Henderson County. I work for Stronghurst 12 Township. There is 11 confinements in our area. 13 There is three on one road, and some of those I think 14 has got some kind of netting on it. I don't know, you 15 said bionetting or something like that, is that right? 16 UNIDENTIFIED: Biocurtain. 17 MR. SULLIVAN: Okay. If you don't put 18 that on and there is smell, would you be agreeable to 19 put it on to try holding the odor down, because there 20 is a gentlemen to the right of me on the end of this 21 road here has got emphysema, I have got a touch of 22 asthma and the stink and the dust of it blowing 23 towards -- the wind out of the south is going to 24 definitely to be coming our way, and her husband is 111 1 bad. 2 My other concern was with the road 3 commissioner behind, I've got figures that this 4 confinement in Henderson County, with these 11 5 confinements, pays $11,999.54, and $1523.96 goes to 6 the township. That is for everything in the township. 7 The road commissioner told me that about 8 to 900 of 8 that goes towards fix-up of the roads. 9 Why are you not agreeable in paying part of 10 the fix-up of the roads? Because we are in Henderson 11 County. I am sure you are frequently going to be 12 using that road to the north. 13 DR. HOLLIS: Three questions. I will go 14 in backwards order. The road data that you shared 15 sounds low. $11,000 in total tax bill? 16 MR. SULLIVAN: 12,000. 17 DR. HOLLIS: In total. We are talking 18 about -- 19 MR. SULLIVAN: He went to the courthouse 20 and got it. 21 DR. HOLLIS: I understand. We are talking 22 about $90,000 in total tax bill for this operation, 23 and so we're not making that up. That is real math 24 against the real building value. 112 1 MR. SULLIVAN: Yeah, but your 2 figure, 90,000, your 90,000 is higher than what 3 Henderson County's is, but what you paid the township 4 was like 6 or $9,000. 5 DR. HOLLIS: Again, we don't get to pick 6 where the $90,000 get split. Those are numbers that 7 are already in place, so -- 8 MR. SULLIVAN: But your confinement is in 9 McDonough County. Henderson County don't get any, but 10 McDonough gets that $9,000. 11 DR. HOLLIS: Yes, I understand. I 12 understand. 13 The second question dealt with biofilters I 14 believe, and again, we've not seen the value of that 15 technology. 16 Would we want to see reduction of dust? 17 Absolutely. That's why we have picked the area where 18 we are and why we clean the facility the way we do. 19 We do not want to be a nuisance. We do not want to be 20 a burden. 21 So yes, we're going to use the best technology 22 that we can applied in the appropriate manner, but can 23 I guarantee you that it will have biofilters? No, I 24 can't do that. We do have netting, but it is not the 113 1 netting that I think you are referring to. We use 2 netting so when the sidewall curtains would come down, 3 you don't have birds or varmints that would get in the 4 buildings, but that's not the same. 5 Did I miss one of your questions? 6 MR. SULLIVAN: Yes, dealing with property 7 values. 8 DR. HOLLIS: I believe I addressed that 9 earlier. I don't have a good answer for you on 10 property values. 11 MR. SULLIVAN: Follow-up on that one on 12 the netting. The netting is not on the outside, it is 13 on the end of where the fans is, and I have went past 14 these confinements, and personally I do think that it 15 does help. I think there is still some smell. I 16 don't know whether you are ever going to get rid of 17 all of the smell, but it did help I felt. 18 DR. HOLLIS: Are they back off the road? 19 MR. SULLIVAN: There is some of them 20 within less than 100 feet of the road, probably 50 21 foot. 22 DR. HOLLIS: Well, this farm site will be 23 on the north side of the pond. So there will be trees 24 on two sides, almost half mile of trees to the north, 114 1 and we will evaluate whether we want to put tree 2 buffers or other barriers in place as the site moves 3 forward. That's something that yes, we will evaluate. 4 MR. SULLIVAN: This lady here said about 5 the wind turbines. We are in a very windy area, and 6 that will carry a considerable length of distance. 7 Thank you. 8 HEARING OFFICER: Catch this gentleman 9 back here. 10 MR. THOMPSON: Try to speak loud. 11 Question for Mr. West, the engineer. When you are 12 required to submit -- 13 HEARING OFFICER: If you can put the 14 microphone up to your mouth and state your name again. 15 MR. THOMPSON: Scott Thompson, 16 T-H-O-M-P-S-O-N for Mr. West. 17 When you are actually required to submit 18 blueprints so there can be a fair assessment of the 19 facility, do you plan on constructing any dams around 20 these watershed areas to protect the creeks in the 21 event of say an earthquake or accidental spill? 22 MR. WEST: No, there would be no dam built 23 up. The one thing that we do do in the plans is we do 24 put up stormwater diversions, freshwater diversions so 115 1 we make sure all water that would not come in contact 2 with the side of the building. It would all be 3 directed away from the buildings. So no, there would 4 be no dam. 5 MR. THOMPSON: I guess I would be 6 concerned what is coming out of the building than 7 what's coming out of nature and running by your 8 buildings. 9 HEARING OFFICER: Right in front of you 10 there, blue. Name? 11 MS. McMEEKAN: Sorry. Heather McMeekan. 12 When you had said that it was a rough year for ponds, 13 what did you do at the other facilities for the areas 14 that were using pond water? How did you get water 15 there for both the cleaning of the facility and 16 providing for its production? 17 DR. HOLLIS: And that's actually having 18 backup. So you have drilled well, the rural water and 19 the pond. 20 MS. McMEEKAN: Okay. So also in your 21 emergency response plan, you didn't mention anything 22 with risk of hazmat to local responders. In one of 23 your facilities that burned down, it was volunteer 24 responders responding using community paid for 116 1 taxpayer funded resources and training. 2 Do you -- have you changed the way that you 3 work with the local emergency medical services at all? 4 Do you provide hazmat training and suits and 5 on-site annual, annual emergency disaster drills at 6 any of your facilities? 7 DR. HOLLIS: The short answer is yes. The 8 long answer is there is not much hazardous material, 9 so let me explain. 10 We invested in an emergency trailer that we 11 have. So at PSM there is a white box trailer about 12 the size of a car trailer you can see, and it's got 13 emergency equipment. 14 So we don't know what the emergency would be, 15 but I will give you an example, two examples. One 16 would be a truck rolls over. It might happen. Or the 17 truck is in an accident. It might happen. That 18 emergency vehicle is easily accessible. There is 19 people that know where all of the information is. 20 There is a process in place for our staff that know 21 when a phone calls comes in, and there is a phone 22 sitting at the counter. 23 The second part of it is do we do any 24 training? Yes, after the fire that happened in 117 1 Schuyler County, we did have some hazmat communication 2 both with the local folks in terms of who to call, 3 what the communication channels need to be and then 4 also internally so that we know that the phones don't 5 get tied up or the person doesn't get put to voice 6 mail. 7 Then back to the chemicals or hazardous 8 materials. The manure is contained below the pigs. 9 Shouldn't be a reason for any of us to get in those. 10 The equipment that we use or medical products that we 11 use, there is an MSDS safety data on file. 12 MS. McMEEKAN: Data sheet. 13 DR. HOLLIS: On file, and most of these 14 medical products obviously would have their own 15 generally accepted safe records, and then the 16 disinfectant chemical materials are not warehoused at 17 the farm. They come in boxes every month on shipment. 18 So hopefully I've answered your question. Sorry it 19 was a long one. 20 MS. McMEEKAN: Well, if I may just do a 21 quick follow-up. In the mid 90's Raritan was hit by 22 either a F3 or F4 tornado, and so I'm not talking 23 about, about everyday operation but the potential for 24 if what is taken out of there gets lifted up and 118 1 spread out throughout the county, it would be local 2 responders who would have to respond. I'm asking what 3 kind of protections they will have. 4 DR. HOLLIS: I mean, we live here, too, 5 and we are going to do the best we can. We don't 6 believe that there is toxic material at the farm. We 7 believe it is manageable material. 8 MS. McMEEKAN: Thank you. 9 HEARING OFFICER: Two rows in front. 10 MS. DAVIS: My name is Christie Davis, 11 C-H-R-I-S-T-I-E, D-A-V-I-S. 12 I have a couple questions. Mr. West, you said 13 that you did boring samples underneath the buildings; 14 is that correct? 15 MR. WEST: Well, the buildings aren't 16 there, but we did borings where the buildings are 17 planned to be, yes, ma'am. 18 MS. DAVIS: Okay. Now, did you also do 19 boring samples underneath the land where you plan to 20 spread the manure? 21 MR. WEST: No. 22 MS. DAVIS: Why? 23 MR. WEST: Why? Well, there would be -- 24 there is no requirement to do a soil boring underneath 119 1 the application area. 2 What will be done, if you let me try to answer 3 this a little bit, we do -- there will be soil tests 4 taken in every field that is planned to receive manure 5 application. 6 MS. DAVIS: How deep would the borings go? 7 MR. WEST: It is in the upper layer, so 8 less than 12 inches. 9 MS. DAVIS: Because my concern is water 10 run-off, any aquifers that are in that land that you 11 plan to inject the manure. 12 MR. WEST: That's one of the things that I 13 tried to convey earlier. We are putting it in the 14 root zone, so we are not -- you know, we are not 15 placing it down several feet deep. We are putting it 16 in the root zone where the roots will uptake it, it 17 will stay as a fertilizer just like a commercial 18 fertilizer would be used. 19 MS. DAVIS: Right. Okay. 20 Mr. Hollis, a couple questions about PSM. On 21 your web site today, PSM said that they serviced over 22 300 farms; is that correct? 23 DR. HOLLIS: Yes. 24 MS. DAVIS: Because today you mentioned 120 1 you only have 26. You do service over 300 farms? 2 DR. HOLLIS: Can I explain the 3 distinction? 4 MS. DAVIS: Certainly. 5 DR. HOLLIS: There is ten owners of South 6 Morgan. There is 26 farms. The first farm that we 7 worked with had 43 owners. That farm has less than 8 that now, but all of those would be considered people 9 that we would work with. 10 MS. DAVIS: So you count the owners, you 11 don't count the number of farms? 12 DR. HOLLIS: They all have farms. 13 MS. DAVIS: Those ten owners are all in 14 South Morgan. So you don't count just -- you just 15 don't count South Morgan as one, you count South 16 Morgan as ten in the calculation of the 300? 17 DR. HOLLIS: Let me explain the 18 distinction between what I think you are asking and 19 what I am trying to describe. 20 I think you are asking how many farms do we 21 manage -- 22 MS. DAVIS: Correct. 23 DR. HOLLIS: -- where we hire the 24 employees, we train staff, we oversee operation. 121 1 MS. DAVIS: Uh-huh. 2 DR. HOLLIS: That's 26 farms, 26 3 locations. We would service -- and we take our 4 service to these folks and their families very 5 seriously. We would service over 300 farm families. 6 These farmers receive the baby pigs from South Morgan. 7 So they own South Morgan, but they also have a farm at 8 home where that baby pig goes to, to be raised to 9 market weight. So we would work with them as well, 10 but we don't hire their employees, and we don't 11 service their home farm operation. 12 MS. DAVIS: Okay. Who is a -- I looked at 13 the upper level employees at PSM. I saw a lot of 14 horizontal managers but didn't see a president or a 15 CEO or a board or any of those kinds of people listed. 16 Could you tell me who those people are, 17 please? 18 DR. HOLLIS: Sure. The president of 19 Professional Swine Management is Joe Connor. 20 MS. DAVIS: Okay. 21 DR. HOLLIS: And the owners are Dr. Doug 22 Groth who is here tonight and myself and Jack Coleman 23 who is a veterinarian in Missouri. 24 MS. DAVIS: Thank you. 122 1 HEARING OFFICER: Lady right here in the 2 maroon. 3 MS. BRANIFF: My name is Beverly Braniff, 4 B-E-V-E-R-L-Y, B-R-A-N-I-F-F. 5 My question is for PSM. In -- even in the 6 very unlikely event that you don't have any spills or 7 leakage, isn't it true that there is more in the air 8 that's released from these confinements than just 9 stench? 10 Isn't it true that there are things like 11 hydrogen sulphides that are released, and will your, 12 will your facility be any different than the rest of 13 them in the country in that regard? 14 MR. WEST: Sorry, ma'am. I can't -- 15 couldn't see you. Okay. I want to make sure I'm 16 speaking to the right person here. 17 You are correct. There are gases that are 18 associated with livestock manure. That always has 19 been and always will be. One of the things that we 20 try to -- the facility, when I say we, the facility, 21 we try to minimize that by the, by the feed rations. 22 That's one way we try to minimize it. 23 Now, we can't, we can't totally get rid of it, 24 so there will be some. But that is also why the 123 1 setbacks are put in place so that this facility is not 2 -- there is a separation distance between the facility 3 itself and any neighbors. 4 MS. BRANIFF: Follow-up question, please. 5 What directions will the fans blow, what end of the 6 building? 7 MR. HOLLIS: I don't think we have that 8 determined yet quite honestly. We're evaluating all 9 options for layout in that footprint. So we don't 10 know exactly which direction the fans will be. I'm 11 not hiding it, we just don't know yet. 12 MS. BRANIFF: Have you taken into 13 consideration the effect of the wind farm that will be 14 coming on the east side of you? 15 MR. HOLLIS: No, but that's a fair 16 question. Be happy to look into it. 17 MS. BRANIFF: Thank you. 18 HEARING OFFICER: We have been going over 19 an hour and a half here. We will just have a couple 20 more questions. Sorry, Brad, the gentleman way back 21 in the corner. 22 MR. SMITH: My name is Michael Smith, 23 S-M-I-T-H. 24 I have two questions. The first one is for 124 1 Mr. Goetsch. Isn't it true that the Department of 2 Agriculture does not conduct any soil tests at these 3 facilities and the facility themselves provide that to 4 you or to the EPA? 5 MR. GOETSCH: Yes, that is correct. 6 MR. SMITH: That's kind like the fox 7 watching the chicken house, right? 8 MR. GOETSCH: I would say that's pretty 9 consistent with just about all permitting programs in 10 this country. 11 MR. SMITH: Okay. My second question is 12 to Dr. Hollis. 13 Sir, toward the end of your slide 14 presentation, one of your slides said -- you didn't 15 say this, but it was on one of your slides -- PSM is 16 well thought of by our neighbors. Is that true? 17 DR. HOLLIS: Yes, that's true. 18 MR. SMITH: That is not true. I can tell 19 you that for a fact because I am one of your 20 neighbors, and as to Prairie State Gilts in Schuyler 21 County, you have no friends around that facility that 22 will allow you to put manure on their ground and for 23 15 years -- 24 HEARING OFFICER: Sir, do you have a 125 1 question? 2 MR. SMITH: -- you have put the same 3 manure on the same property. Can you explain that to 4 me? 5 DR. HOLLIS: No. 6 MR. WEST: I can. There is no, there is 7 no problem with applying manure onto the same property 8 year after year. 9 MR. SMITH: For 15 years on 200 acres 10 tillable ground? 11 MR. WEST: It is totally dependant on the 12 crops you are using and what the consistency, the 13 concentration of that manure. It is not -- you might 14 be able to do it for 100 years. It is totally 15 dependent on the concentration of that manure and what 16 crops you are using. 17 MR. SMITH: For a 3600 sow operation, that 18 is okay then? 19 MR. WEST: That's not what I said. I 20 didn't do the numbers on that. What I was referring 21 to is your reference of putting manure on the same 22 field for 20 years, I don't think that is unacceptable 23 necessarily. 24 MR. SMITH: How can the public -- does the 126 1 public have access to those records? 2 MR. WEST: I -- no, not at this time. 3 MR. SMITH: So how do we know what is 4 going on? 5 MR. WEST: Then you have to trust that the 6 facility is doing the right thing. If not, then there 7 are options for you to use. 8 MR. SMITH: Well, what would those be? 9 MR. WEST: Environmental Protection Agency 10 is the agency that would be the regulatory agency for 11 any release of manure. 12 MR. SMITH: Thank you. 13 HEARING OFFICER: Sir, go ahead. This 14 will be the last question. 15 MS. MARTIN: This would go to the odor 16 management plan, and I think I would be wanting to 17 talk to Chris. 18 Chris, have you calculated how much ammonia 19 will be generated by this facility and exhausted 20 through the fans? 21 MR. WEST: No, we have not calculated 22 that. 23 MS. MARTIN: If I told you that it would 24 be about 100,000 pounds of nitrogen per year, does 127 1 that sound about right to you? 2 MR. WEST: Which compound are we talking 3 about? 4 MS. MARTIN: Ammonia nitrogen. 5 MR. WEST: That sounds very high. 6 MS. MARTIN: We are looking at 10,000 baby 7 pigs at .02 pounds nitrogen per head per day and 8,000 8 adult pigs at .1 pounds nitrogen. 9 MR. WEST: I have not made those 10 calculations. 11 MS. MARTIN: Don't you do this all the 12 time? You say you manage these facilities, you design 13 these facilities. 14 MR. WEST: We do not calculate the amount 15 of ammonia that's released. 16 MS. MARTIN: You don't calculate how much 17 nitrogen is generated by these facilities for the 18 nutrient management plan? 19 MR. WEST: We do. 20 MS. MARTIN: Okay. You know that 30% of 21 the nitrogen is lost in the barns due to 22 volatilization as ammonia? 23 MR. WEST: That I would disagree with. 24 MS. MARTIN: You are assuming you would 128 1 lose no nitrogen at all? 2 MR. WEST: That's not what I said. I 3 would disagree with 70%. 4 MS. MARTIN: 30% is lost, 30. So 30% of 5 300,000 is 100,000 pounds of nitrogen per year 6 exhausted out of the barns. How does your odor 7 management plan deal with that? 8 MR. WEST: I would disagree of your 30% 9 number. I think it is much, much lower. 10 MS. MARTIN: That's NRCS value from the 11 government. 12 MR. WEST: Not for underbuilding pits, 13 ma'am. 14 MS. MARTIN: Yes, it is for deep pit. I 15 have been doing this for 15 years, okay? 30%. 16 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Well, thank you 17 very much for your questions. Like I said, we have 18 been going here for an hour and a half or so, and the 19 court reporter needs a break. So we will take a 20 ten-minute break. We will begin again at 9:05 with 21 the oral testimony phase. 22 (A break was taken.) 23 HEARING OFFICER: We need to get started. 24 We are going to have a slight change in procedure 129 1 here. We have a couple people that have to leave, so 2 there is some people that wanted to present some 3 written testimony. So I will accept some written 4 testimony from people at this time if you have to 5 leave. 6 So where is the lady? Here she is. There she 7 is. Yes, just bring it up here. Thank you very much. 8 Entered into the record as Exhibit 4 is a 9 letter from Anita Rutzen, R-U-T-Z-E-N, addressed to 10 the McDonough County Board. 11 (Exhibit #4 marked for identification 12 and admitted.) 13 HEARING OFFICER: Is there anyone else who 14 has to leave that would like to present some written 15 testimony? 16 Sir, are you going to stay till the end? 17 MR. THOMPSON: Yes, I will speak. 18 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. 19 UNIDENTIFIED: Is this just for people 20 leaving or thinking of leaving early? 21 HEARING OFFICER: Yes, just for people 22 that are leaving. 23 Yeah, okay. We are going to move onto the 24 oral testimony phase. I have the sign-in sheets that 130 1 were in the back of the room, out in the hallway 2 listing people who wish to provide oral testimony. I 3 will go down the list and call your name. When called 4 upon, please step up to the microphone, state your 5 name and spell your last name for the court reporter. 6 I will then swear you in. You will have three minutes 7 to speak, and then you will also be subject to 8 questioning after you present your testimony. 9 First on the list is Christie Davis. Brad 10 will help you there. 11 Would you state your name and spell your last 12 name? 13 MS. DAVIS: C-H-R-I-S-T-I-E, D-A-V-I-S. 14 HEARING OFFICER: Would you raise your 15 right hand? 16 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 17 MS. DAVIS: I affirm. 18 HEARING OFFICER: You may proceed. 19 MS. DAVIS: The first thing that I would 20 like to talk about are some studies done by North 21 Carolina State, Duke University and the University of 22 Iowa. Based on a 2003 American Public Health 23 Association's review of evidence of the health and 24 economic impacts of concentrated animal feeding 131 1 operations, or CAFO's, indicating impacts on children 2 and CAFO neighbors from exposure to large 3 concentrations of manure and their subsequent 4 emissions of dust, toxins, microbes, antibiotics and 5 pollutant in the air and water, the association 6 resolved that it would urge federal, state and local 7 governments and public health agencies to impose a 8 moratorium on new CAFO's until additional scientific 9 data on the attendant risks to public health have been 10 collected and uncertainties resolved. 11 The American Public Health Association's 12 recommendations were recently endorsed by a collection 13 of American and European environmental scientists. 14 The endorsement emerged from expert community health 15 work group in 2004, the results of which were recently 16 published. The work group found that sufficient 17 research exists to support action to protect rural 18 residents from the negative community health effects 19 of CAFO's. 20 My second point. The median average income of 21 a family of four in McDonough County is $32,000. 22 That's just $3,000 over the poverty line. Now, if 23 deleterious health problems occur from South Morgan 24 Acres, that gives a family of four $3,000 for doctor 132 1 bills and various problems that these people are not 2 going to be paying for. 3 Other things that I wanted to focus on that I 4 think it is something that we've forgotten about is 5 what the Illinois Constitution says. In the Preamble, 6 in order to provide for the health, safety and welfare 7 of the people. 8 In the Bill of Rights, Article I, Section 5, 9 the people have the right to assemble in a peaceable 10 manner, to consult for the common good, to make known 11 their opinions to their representatives. We are doing 12 all this even though for two months for an $11 million 13 investment, we still don't see a plan. 14 HEARING OFFICER: You have about 15 15 seconds. 16 MS. DAVIS: Thank you. The last thing I 17 would like to say is shame on the county board in 18 McDonough County for those people who voted against 19 this public hearing. Thank you. 20 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. Hang on just 21 a second, Ms. Davis. Are there questions for this 22 witness? I see none. Thank you. 23 MS. DAVIS: Thank you. 24 HEARING OFFICER: Next up is Beverly 133 1 Braniff. Would you state your name and spell your 2 last name? 3 MS. BRANIFF: Beverly Braniff, 4 B-R-A-N-I-F-F. 5 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 6 MS. BRANIFF: My name is Beverly Braniff, 7 and my husband and I live two miles southwest of the 8 proposed site. We are opposed to the construction of 9 this massive facility because, one, it will interfere 10 with the recreation and economic development of our 11 area and two, it will destroy our property values. 12 Deer hunting is an important part of the 13 culture, and more and more hunters are coming to this 14 area to hunt. They process their deer at our locker, 15 they buy their gas at our convenience store and they 16 donate thousands of pounds of venison to a program to 17 feed the hungry and needy citizens of this county. 18 Who will want to sit in a deer stand next year 19 for hour after hour when there is eye-watering, 20 nauseating smell coming on that north wind? 21 In addition, every 3rd of July the Raritan 22 Fire Department puts on its fireworks display at the 23 farm of Louis and Karen Moore located just east of 24 this facility. This celebration has been taking place 134 1 for over 30 years, and it draws 5,000 people to their 2 farm. Will anyone want to endure the stomach-churning 3 smell and breathe the polluted air next year? 4 If someone came along and poured toxins down 5 our well, I would call the sheriff. Knowing our 6 sheriff, he would get to the bottom of it. He would 7 find out who did it, and he would bring that person to 8 justice. 9 Who will we call when South Morgan Acres 10 destroys our wells, our properties and our health? 11 When my husband and I bought this property in 12 December of 1983, the house was uninhabitable and the 13 property overgrown and long neglected. Over the years 14 we have restored the home and the property with our 15 own two hands. All of our assets are tied up in our 16 home and property. I am angry that a group of 17 investors can come from out of state with no concern 18 for anything but a huge return on the investment and 19 destroy our property values perhaps even making our 20 house unsellable. 21 I urge the McDonough County Board to vote no 22 on this facility and the Department of Agriculture to 23 deny the permit. 24 HEARING OFFICER: Are there questions for 135 1 this witness? Yes, in the back. 2 MR. ANDERSON: Nick Anderson, 3 A-N-D-E-R-S-O-N. 4 HEARING OFFICER: Hang on just a second. 5 Where is Brad? Brad, can you grab a microphone here? 6 MR. ANDERSON: Nick Anderson, 7 A-N-D-E-R-S-O-N. 8 When you came up with your property 9 devaluation, what calculations or where did you gather 10 that fact from? 11 MS. BRANIFF: There are numerous studies 12 showing that between -- property values decrease 13 between 40 and 70%. I can provide you the specific 14 citation. I didn't expect I would have time to read 15 the citation here today. 16 MR. ANDERSON: Have you seen that 17 reduction in other PSM properties, especially the ones 18 that are nearby your community? 19 MS. BRANIFF: I think there are people 20 here that could answer that very clearly. I cannot, 21 no. 22 MR. ANDERSON: So you can't provide that 23 with your testimony? 24 MS. BRANIFF: No. 136 1 MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Thanks. 2 HEARING OFFICER: Other questions? Seeing 3 none, thank you. 4 MS. BRANIFF: Thank you. 5 HEARING OFFICER: Next on the list is Bob 6 Zellmann. State and spell your name, please. 7 MR. ZELLMANN: Bob Zellmann, 8 Z-E-L-L-M-A-N-N. 9 HEARING OFFICER: Could you put the 10 microphone up? 11 MR. ZELLMANN: Sure. I'm not good at 12 this. I'm not a tech guy. 13 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 14 HEARING OFFICER: You may proceed. Step 15 up to the microphone. 16 MR. ZELLMANN: My name is Bob Zellmann. I 17 live on North 2100 Road, a couple miles from the site. 18 I'm an unwilling neighbor and against this hog 19 factory. 20 I am concerned about the effect that the air 21 pollution will have on the children in my 22 neighborhood. The area that I live in has a high 23 concentration. Sixteen people live within a mile of 24 the area, several miles from this site, and seven of 137 1 those people are school children who will live in the 2 area. I have some concerns about the effect on their 3 health and their lung development. 4 I just have sort of some little stories here. 5 My daughter has guinea pigs and when their cage gets 6 dirty and the awful smell of the urine permeates her 7 room, we clean the cage, and the problem is solved. 8 We are also guinea pigs here. We are trapped by 9 polluted air and stuck in our cages and houses until 10 the owners -- that's PSM and the like -- decide if 11 they want to clean. 12 My family is stuck with PSM's response and 13 when and if they do respond, will PSM take 14 responsibility and answer my calls when the stench is 15 unbearable? 16 With few workers and no one living on site, I 17 do have some very real concerns. 18 PSM, will you answer my calls and respond to 19 my complaints and concerns? How quickly and what will 20 you do? And how do I know that what you tell me 21 tonight will not just be words but will be actions? 22 Colonization is a term I would use to describe 23 what the factory is doing to me and my local family. 24 We are being colonized. Those who do not live here 138 1 and do not have any real interest in us have the power 2 to take over an area, extract the wealth and benefits, 3 and we are left with the consequences, traffic, the 4 odor, the mess, and I want to see if these people will 5 show up. 6 Will they come down here and see this farm and 7 deal with it like we will, deal with the health 8 effects? 9 I recently bought a home next to me, and I 10 spent a great deal of energy and money to get it ready 11 for rent, and my family, many families want to raise 12 their children where I live because it is safe and 13 clean. I am not sure if I can find renters now for 14 the property that I have developed if they know there 15 is a hog confinement nearby. 16 These are just a few of the many reasons that 17 I have that I am against the South Morgan Farms. 18 HEARING OFFICER: Are there any questions 19 for this witness? Any questions? Yes. Hang on a 20 just second, please. 21 MS. BLEVINS: Chris Blevins. I would like 22 to know why you think that your property would be 23 unrentable. 24 As an employee of PSM, we have a lot of houses 139 1 around our farms. We have a lot of our employees that 2 want to live close. I do not perceive your home being 3 unrentable. 4 MR. ZELLMANN: Okay. My idea here is 5 actually a psychological one. If somebody hears the 6 idea -- I don't know about facts but if somebody hears 7 that, I have a feeling that some will just say no, I'm 8 not going to call that number because it is within 9 several miles. I'm not saying a real knowledge is 10 what may change people's minds. I will say perception 11 will change people's mind. Perception is reality for 12 most people. It is not actual reality. 13 HEARING OFFICER: Further questions? 14 Thank you. Next on the list is Karen Zellmann. 15 MR. ZELLMANN: She had to leave. 16 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Next up Earl 17 Waller. 18 MR. WALLER: I'm Earl Waller, W-A-L-L-E-R. 19 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 20 HEARING OFFICER: Please step up to the 21 microphone just a little. Thank you. 22 MR. WALLER: This letter is in regards to 23 the hog confinement facility deemed proposed on County 24 Road 2300 North Blandinsville Township, McDonough 140 1 County, Illinois. I am a highway commissioner in 2 Raritan Township in Henderson County. The proposed 3 facility is roughly one-half mile south of the 4 township line of Blandinsville and Raritan Townships 5 and on the county line of McDonough and Henderson 6 Counties. 7 I strongly oppose the issuance of permits for 8 this facility. My opposition of this facility is for 9 the following reasons: One, our roads aren't built 10 for the heavy truck traffic and manure hauling 11 equipment this facility will generate. We are having 12 a tremendously hard time funding the expensive 13 maintenance from farmers' semis once a year now. 14 This would disintegrate our roads from heavy loads and 15 traffic beyond our capabilities to fund the extra 16 repairs of maintenance. We are barely treading water 17 keeping our heads up now. 18 Number two, the neighbors, which some are my 19 constituents. They were living there first. People 20 live in the country for peace and quiet and to enjoy 21 the sanctity of life. The noise and putrid odors 22 generated from this facility would interrupt and would 23 be the demise of all three. 24 There are many more reasons space would not 141 1 permit me to go on and on like our township would not 2 benefit from any taxes from this facility to help 3 defray the costs of semis hauling livestock, feed, 4 manure, et cetera if semis would take shortcuts on our 5 roads, and they will. Please do not allow a facility 6 of this type. I implore you to refuse to issue 7 permits for this facility. 8 HEARING OFFICER: Are there questions for 9 this witness? I see none. Thank you. 10 Next up is Bill Callahan. 11 MR. CALLAHAN: My name is Bill Callahan, 12 C-A-L-L-A-H-A-N. 13 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 14 MR. CALLAHAN: By the way, County Donegal, 15 Ireland, born. 16 I'm Bill Callahan, Road Commissioner of 17 Blandinsville Township. I have some figures to 18 present concerning the cost to taxpayers of this 19 township. 20 Mr. Waller and I have consulted with each 21 other, and we are in agreement on the detrimental 22 effect this enterprise will have on the roads in our 23 townships. Before there is a hog hauled off from the 24 premise, there will have to be significant repairs 142 1 made to the roads after the construction of the 2 facilities. Constant traffic of concrete trucks, 3 delivery and feed trucks and livestock trailers on the 4 township road will be devastating. 5 I have put together some figures on what it 6 would cost to rebuild this one-half mile on 2300, 24 7 feet wide. First it will take 2300 tons of rock to a 8 depth of six inches. At $6.15 a ton, this will amount 9 to $14,145 for base rock. On top of that we will have 10 to apply 1,600 tons of CA-6, which is road rock with 11 fines in it, to a depth of four inches at a cost of 12 $5.70 a ton. This is $9,120. The seal coat rock will 13 consist of 250 tons of CA-16 at $9.95 cents a ton for 14 a total of $2,487. This brings the cost of just the 15 rock alone to $25,752. 16 A new entranceway to the farm will have to be 17 widened with a pipe 24 inches around, 60 feet long at 18 a cost of $1200. After the rock is applied, culvert 19 installation and grading done, 4,000 gallons of SC 20 3000 seal coat will be necessary to finish the surface 21 at $2.99 a gallon. This will come to $11,960. 22 In order to complete just this one-half mile 23 road at 15 tons per load, we will have to make 275 24 round trips of 54 miles to the nearest quarry which 143 1 will cost upwards of $10,000 in fuel costs. Total 2 cost to the taxpayers of Blandinsville Township will 3 be approximately 48,362. I said approximately. 4 Other factors to be considered are manure 5 hauling with additional heavy tractors and applicators 6 and turning of these big rigs on 24-foot road will 7 accelerate the yearly maintenance cost to the 8 township. At this point in time the township road 9 budget is severely stressed and is doubtful that the 10 extra tax revenue from this enterprise will compensate 11 for these extra expenses. 12 Sincerely, Bill Callahan. 13 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. Are there 14 questions for this witness? Mr. Anderson. 15 MR. CALLAHAN: I knew he would. I knew 16 you would. 17 MR. ANDERSON: Are you up for it, Bill? 18 MR. CALLAHAN: No, are you? 19 MR. ANDERSON: You used the number of 20 48,362 as kind of a rough estimate to build that road 21 up. 22 MR. CALLAHAN: Yeah. 23 MR. ANDERSON: What kind of maintenance 24 over time per year would that take once you establish 144 1 that road? 2 UNIDENTIFIED: Can't hear you. 3 MR. ANDERSON: What kind of maintenance 4 cost per year would you estimate once you built the 5 road, got it conditioned to maintain that over Bill 6 Hollis', I think he said 20-year life, just an 7 estimate? 8 MR. CALLAHAN: I have no idea because fuel 9 costs, oil costs change every year and -- 10 HEARING OFFICER: Could you use the 11 microphone, sir? 12 MR. CALLAHAN: Oh, I thought I was talking 13 to him. 14 Well, it depends on fuel costs, the weather. 15 MR. ANDERSON: Sure. 16 MR. CALLAHAN: You guys are going over 17 these roads February, March, April when they're at the 18 worst. 19 MR. ANDERSON: It is not me, I am just 20 asking a question. 21 MR. CALLAHAN: Well, you are asking me, so 22 I'm telling you. They can -- 23 MR. ANDERSON: $6,000 a year that's 24 estimated for the road? 145 1 MR. CALLAHAN: That's will not cover it. 2 MR. ANDERSON: But over a 10 year, now 3 20-year life of that project. So 6,000 times 10 is 4 $60,000, correct, and times 20 is 120? 5 MR. CALLAHAN: You do the math. 6 MR. ANDERSON: $120,000 this farm over a 7 period of time once the road is established will 8 exceed your initial budget of establishing the road 9 base, correct? 10 MR. CALLAHAN: But I will have to probably 11 go back and redo it maybe every other year, two years, 12 three years as weather permits. 13 UNIDENTIFIED: That's only half a mile. 14 MR. CALLAHAN: That's only half a mile. 15 MR. ANDERSON: Correct, but the numbers 16 you are using on developing that road base, the tax 17 base is exceeding your cost over a 10 and 20-year 18 period. 19 MR. CALLAHAN: Right. 20 MR. ANDERSON: That's all I wanted to 21 know. 22 MR. CALLAHAN: Right, exceeded, yeah. 23 HEARING OFFICER: Are there further 24 questions? 146 1 UNIDENTIFIED: Yes, I have a question as 2 to the questioner. I want to know who he represents. 3 MR. CALLAHAN: Yeah, who do you represent? 4 MR. ANDERSON: My name is Nick Anderson. 5 MR. CALLAHAN: From where? 6 MR. ANDERSON: I'm from Illinois -- 7 MR. CALLAHAN: From where? 8 HEARING OFFICER: Use the microphone. 9 MR. ANDERSON: I'm a taxpayer in the State 10 of Illinois. 11 UNIDENTIFIED: Still can't hear you. 12 UNIDENTIFIED: Are you paid to be here? 13 MR. CALLAHAN: Are you a lobbyist? 14 MR. ANDERSON: I'm not a lobbyist. 15 MR. BEAVER: Let me get the mic. Just one 16 second, please. 17 MR. CALLAHAN: I have got a suggestion. 18 Why don't you have him come up here, talk to you, give 19 his opinion. 20 Oh, you're a pork producer in Illinois. 21 MR. ANDERSON: No, I'm not a pork producer 22 MR. CALLAHAN: Then you're a lobbyist. 23 MR. ANDERSON: I'm not. 24 MR. CALLAHAN: What are you? 147 1 MR. ANDERSON: I'm a resident of Illinois, 2 any resident in this room. 3 HEARING OFFICER: Hold on. Hold on. 4 Mr. Anderson is not the subject of the questions, he 5 is asking the questions. 6 MR. CALLAHAN: And I asked him back. I 7 rest my case. 8 HEARING OFFICER: You are testifying. You 9 can't ask the questions. 10 Back there, there is a question. 11 MR. CALLAHAN: What now? 12 MR. TERRELL: My name is Don Terrell. 13 If the money you are going to receive over the 14 10 or 20-year period is going to exceed the cost of 15 fixing this road, that's all fine and well, but where 16 is the money going to come from in the first place to 17 fix the road? 18 HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Terrell, can you 19 spell your name, please? 20 MR. TERRELL: T-E R-R-E-L-L. 21 MR. CALLAHAN: First year there won't be 22 no money. 23 MR. TERRELL: So there will be a deficit 24 to start with? 148 1 MR. CALLAHAN: Right. 2 MR. TERRELL: Thank you. 3 HEARING OFFICER: You're not done yet. 4 MR. CALLAHAN: I know how those guys felt 5 now. Do they do this in Minnesota? 6 HEARING OFFICER: Got a question right 7 here. Can you state your name, please? 8 MR. SULLIVAN: Bill Sullivan, 9 S-U-L-L-I-V-A-N. 10 Do you know, they said they pay $9,000 to the 11 township. He is talking about 20 years. That's a 12 long ways away from paying that $48,000. 13 MR. CALLAHAN: Yeah, I know. He is 14 getting paid to say that, so -- 15 MR. SULLIVAN: Right. 16 MR. CALLAHAN: I don't know. All I know, 17 I do my job and do it damn well and am damn proud of 18 it, and I told the boys this morning, I told the boys 19 this morning, I says if you lie to me, I can shit all 20 over you. We are going to be up front. 21 HEARING OFFICER: I think with that 22 comment you can sit down. 23 MR. CALLAHAN: I knew I would get it. 24 HEARING OFFICER: I guess that's one way 149 1 of getting out of answering more questions. 2 Up next is Laura Twaddle. 3 MS. TWADDLE: My name is Laura Twaddle, 4 L-A-U-R-A, T-W-A-D-D-L-E. 5 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 6 HEARING OFFICER: You may proceed. 7 MS. TWADDLE: Location, location, location 8 has been every real estate motto for decades. Why? 9 Because the better location, the more money the 10 property will bring, the more commission paid to the 11 agent. 12 If that statement is true, then just the 13 opposite is also true. The worse the location such as 14 a crime ridden neighborhood, a high traffic factory or 15 large scale hog confinement, the less money the 16 property will be worth. 17 The real estate agents' impact is felt 18 immediately on their commission or for a person 19 applying for the loan. Location represents a higher 20 risk to the bank. The impact may be even higher 21 mortgage rate or flat-out refusal of the loan. 22 The longer range effects of the devaluation of 23 the property will be reflected on the tax rolls when 24 the local assessor has to put a fair valuation on the 150 1 property. That, in turn, will affect money received 2 by the schools, fire department, library, township, 3 cities and the salaries of the people such as the 4 police department and the road commissioner that work 5 for them. 6 The trickle down effect will continue on as 7 homes close to the confinement itself. An appraiser 8 would be making a comparison value for a lending 9 institution. Finding three homes of similar 10 construction, age and location that have recently sold 11 to establish a fair market value can be a challenge 12 now. If one home is devalued by being close to a 13 large scale confinement, the precedent has been set. 14 With 30 McDonough County homes within a three-mile 15 radius of the proposed South Morgan Acres, there is 16 danger to the value of those homes. There are more 17 homes over the Henderson and Hancock County lines. 18 If the tax assessment of the affected homes 19 goes down enough, the county will look at raising the 20 multiplier number to make up for lost revenue. Now 21 all taxpayers in our area will be affected regardless 22 of their proximity to the confinement. 23 The value of the hog confinement building 24 would make up part of the tax loss the first year year 151 1 assessed. By the second year, the owner can apply for 2 a state granted air pollution tax abatement. The 3 walls of the building are considered air pollution 4 control devices, and in McDonough County, one small 5 hog confinement is already receiving a 43% reduction 6 in taxes on the building. The state, not the county, 7 can grant up to a 70% reduction in taxes. 8 This is only one small part of the economic 9 impact that South Morgan Acres could have on 10 Blandinsville Township and McDonough County. I would 11 hope the McDonough County Board would vote to not 12 recommend construction of the hog confinement with 13 knowledge of the impact it can have in the near future 14 and the long range impact it can have on our tax 15 dollars if it is required to clean up the mess. 16 Thank you for requesting this hearing. 17 Sincerely, Laura Twaddle. 18 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. Are there 19 questions for this witness? Yes. 20 MR. MAIERS: Tim Maiers, M-A-I-E-R-S. Are 21 you aware of -- you mentioned Henderson County. Are 22 you aware of any property values that have been 23 lowered by the tax assessor, say for instance in 24 Henderson County? 152 1 MS. TWADDLE: My research was only in 2 McDonough County since I'm a resident of McDonough 3 County. 4 MR. MAIERS: Okay. Are you familiar with 5 an article that appeared in the Burlington Hawk Eye 6 here a couple years ago where the Henry County 7 assessor said he has not reduced property values in 8 the county due to hog confinement? 9 MS. TWADDLE: I'm not referring to 10 Henderson County, I've only researched McDonough 11 County. No, I'm not aware of that article. 12 MR. MAIERS: Have you had any other 13 McDonough County property that you know of that's been 14 reduced due to hog -- 15 MS. TWADDLE: Yes, this -- I just cited 16 one hog confinement that has been reduced, the income 17 that that building is producing for his roads has been 18 reduced by 43% for this coming year. The building 19 dollars are going down that is being paid to the 20 county. 21 MR. MAIERS: You mentioned -- just one 22 other quick question. You mentioned location 23 obviously of the things you focused on. Are there any 24 other factors that affect property values that you are 153 1 aware of? 2 MS. TWADDLE: Yes, there are many things 3 that affect property values. 4 MR. MAIERS: Okay. Thank you. 5 HEARING OFFICER: Ms. Hudson? 6 MS. HUDSON: Yes, I just have a question. 7 Are you aware of the hog farmer in Kansas who had his 8 own property house devalued because of his own factory 9 farm? 10 MS. TWADDLE: No, I'm not, but I'm not 11 surprised. 12 MS. HUDSON: We will provide that to the 13 county board. 14 MS. TWADDLE: Thank you. 15 HEARING OFFICER: Brad, over here. 16 MS. LINK: My name is Maggie Link, 17 L-I-N-K. I believe your question was if any homes in 18 Henderson County have been devalued. Was that 19 regarding -- 20 HEARING OFFICER: Ms. Link, do you have a 21 question for this witness? 22 MS. LINK: Well, the devalue of the homes 23 in Henderson County, when you were referring to that, 24 in fact homes have devalued in Henderson County. I 154 1 don't necessarily have a question but -- 2 HEARING OFFICER: This is the question 3 phase for this witness. 4 MS. LINK: Would you buy a home that was 5 close to a confinement? 6 MS. TWADDLE: No, that would not be my 7 first choice. 8 HEARING OFFICER: Other questions? State 9 your name, please. 10 MS. MARTIN: My name is Kathy Martin. 11 Isn't it true for a house to be devalued, it 12 has to actually be sold? 13 So if nobody buys the homes, there is going to 14 be probably even greater reduction in property value 15 that's not expressed in home sales; isn't that true? 16 MS. TWADDLE: Yes, that could be true. 17 HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Anderson? 18 MR. ANDERSON: Laura, is it true that your 19 property gets assessed every year for the value and 20 taxable purpose of your property? 21 MS. TWADDLE: Tax assessor in 22 Blandinsville -- 23 HEARING OFFICER: Can you speak in the 24 microphone, please? 155 1 MS. TWADDLE: The tax assessor for 2 Blandinsville Township, yes, must go over those 3 records every year. 4 MR. ANDERSON: And asses your value for 5 rural property value, correct? 6 MS. TWADDLE: Correct. 7 MR. ANDERSON: Have you seen that 8 reduction outside others, outside that one reduction 9 that you talked about? 10 MS. TWADDLE: I only cited the one, one 11 single building. 12 MR. ANDERSON: Okay. Thanks. 13 HEARING OFFICER: Ms. Martin? 14 MS. MARTIN: Just have one follow-up 15 question on the assessor's office. 16 Can a property owner who couldn't sell his 17 property, could he appeal to the assessor to get his 18 property value reduced to reduce his tax burden? 19 MS. TWADDLE: There is a process that they 20 can go through at the tax assessor's office to change 21 your valuation at any time. 22 HEARING OFFICER: Right here in the brown. 23 MS. MOORE: Karen Moore, M-O-O-R-E. 24 Laura, did I understand you to say that the 156 1 state can give South Morgan Acres up to a 70% tax 2 abatement? 3 MS. TWADDLE: It is the state's abatement. 4 They determine the percentage of the reduction in 5 taxes, not the state -- not the assessor for the 6 township, not the county board. It is a state 7 abatement. 8 MS. MOORE: But it can be up to 70%? 9 MS. TWADDLE: Correct. 10 HEARING OFFICER: Other questions? Way in 11 the back. No, just hang on, please. State your name, 12 please. 13 MR. ASHWOOD: Steve Ashwood, 14 A-S-H-W-O-O-D. 15 Ma'am, what is your first name? 16 MS. TWADDLE: Laura. 17 MR. ASHWOOD: Laura, are you aware that 18 there has been assessments dropped in McDonough County 19 this year due to hog confinement facilities in El 20 Dorado and Industry Townships that are adjacent or 21 near adjacent to existing hog confinement buildings, 22 and they have been reduced due to the fact that they 23 are too close to hog confinement buildings? 24 MS. TWADDLE: No, I did not research each 157 1 individual farm for lack of address. 2 MR. ASHWOOD: I can give you that 3 information if you would like it. 4 MS. TWADDLE: I would. 5 HEARING OFFICER: Other questions? Yes, 6 in the back row. 7 MS. COOK: Ramona Cook. Laura, are you 8 aware that there are three other examples in the State 9 of Illinois within recent years where a township has 10 -- assessors have reduced the assessment on the basis 11 of nearby hog confinements? 12 MS. TWADDLE: I'm glad to hear they have. 13 HEARING OFFICER: Any other questions? 14 Thank you. Sorry, I thought you had your hand up back 15 there. 16 UNIDENTIFIED: No, I got a cramp. 17 HEARING OFFICER: Sorry about that. Next 18 up is, next up is Scott Thompson. State your name. 19 MR. THOMPSON: Scott Thompson, 20 T-H-O-M-P-S-O-N. 21 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 22 MR. THOMPSON: Initially I would like to 23 submit the lawsuits against PSM that were mentioned 24 earlier for public record. 158 1 HEARING OFFICER: Do you have any oral 2 testimony? 3 MR. THOMPSON: Yes. 4 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. 5 MR. THOMPSON: My wife and I, our two 6 children ages 11 and 14 reside a little over one mile 7 south of this proposed swine operation. We have 8 chosen to live in this community and are responsible 9 farmers but also fantastic neighbors for about 12 10 years. We have a cattle pasture directly across the 11 road from our home. The farm is well managed, and 12 we'd rather keep it there than not. The quality of 13 life for our family in this community is excellent. 14 We love living here, and it is where we want to 15 continue raising our children. 16 Although I'm a pharmacist and my wife a nurse, 17 we own a farm, and I have worked on a hog farm. I 18 have no pictures of my family, but I assure you they 19 are lovely, and I'd lay down my life for each of them. 20 Rather than discuss the obvious, intrusive and 21 negative impacts this proposed swine facility will 22 undoubtedly have on our quality of life, I choose to 23 address concerns related to items 2, 5 and 8 of this 24 public hearing. Simply rephrased, these topics 159 1 address the following: Will the environment be 2 protected by the design and location of the CAFO? 3 Will the facility be consistent with enabling 4 growth, tourism, recreation in the area? 5 What I find most alarming about this CAFO is 6 the close proximity to the LaMoine River and the 7 environmental record of Professional Swine Management. 8 With so much flat acreage available in this 9 region, why would investors and operators choose to 10 build so near water and wildlife? 11 Neither the river nor wildlife are necessary 12 for their operations. I can understand and admittedly 13 appreciate that they want to get this CAFO as hidden 14 as possible from the public, tucked away in the woods. 15 In this area of the county, almost all of the 16 remaining wooded acres are highly erodible and near 17 waterways making them unsuitable for row crops. The 18 location of the proposed CAFO certainly drains to the 19 LaMoine River. I contend this location is unsuitable 20 for a CAFO due to environmental concerns. We cannot 21 and should not rely on gravity to clean up pollution. 22 I have hunted immediately east and immediately 23 west of this property for more than 25 years. It is 24 an awesome natural area, abundant in clean water and 160 1 wildlife. If this CAFO were constructed, the river 2 and wildlife west have serious risk of pollution from 3 sewage and other run-off. The property east and all 4 nearby properties have the certainty of stifling odors 5 and decreased recreational value. 6 HEARING OFFICER: Twenty seconds. 7 MR. THOMPSON: Why should our community 8 feel assured we will be able to co-exist with these 9 new neighbors? 10 We have discovered that PSM, the operators of 11 this CAFO, have environmental pollution lawsuits 12 against them from Lisa Madigan in five area counties 13 already including our own. Given these previous 14 concerns with environmental pollution, what will make 15 this facility any different? 16 HEARING OFFICER: Questions for this 17 witness? I see none. Thank you. 18 I will enter into the record as Exhibit #5 the 19 written transcripts here from Mr. Thompson. 20 Mr. Thompson, would you like to turn that in as 21 written testimony, also your oral testimony that you 22 read since you weren't able to finish? 23 (Exhibit #5 marked for identification 24 and admitted.) 161 1 MR. THOMPSON: Sure. Thank you. 2 HEARING OFFICER: I will enter into the 3 record as Exhibit #6 the oral testimony as presented 4 by Mr. Thompson. 5 (Exhibit #6 marked for identification 6 and admitted.) 7 HEARING OFFICER: Next up we have Karen 8 Moore. State and spell your name, please. 9 MS. MOORE: Karen Moore, K-A-R-E-N, 10 M-O-O-R-E. 11 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 12 MS. MOORE: I would like to tell you first 13 a little bit about our background. As I have 14 explained later, we live about one and three-fourths 15 miles east, northeast of the proposed site. The 16 proposed site is in section 4. We live in the 17 northeast portion of section 3. My husband and his 18 three brothers have farmed in this area for 50 years, 19 since the early 50's after they -- well, I should say 20 60 years since the early 50's since they came home 21 after the Korean Army or Korean conflict. My in-laws 22 have lived on the original farm site since 1939. 23 So our men started with the original farm site 24 and as opportunity arose, we have bought ground. 162 1 Louis and I have lived in our home at that site for 44 2 years. We have raised hogs, we have raised cattle. 3 Our son has taken over our farming operation at the 4 beginning of 2011, and he has a small farm, cattle 5 operation. 6 We have attempted to be good stewards of our 7 land, and we have tried to treat our neighbors as we 8 would like to be treated. We just thank God that we 9 have been able to have a good, comfortable life there 10 and would like to continue our retired life there. 11 Louis and I have two concerns that I would 12 like to speak to today. That is property values and 13 health problems. 14 First, some experts say that property near a 15 CAFO site will have a 50 to 90% decrease in value. I 16 am citing a John Kilpatrick on that. Studies show 17 that factory farms do more harm than good to the 18 economy locally and regionally. 19 Also, one CAFO is a magnet for others. Just 20 ask our neighbors in Hancock and Henderson Counties. 21 Do we want McDonough County to become the CAFO capital 22 of Illinois and further lower property and land 23 values? No. 24 Second, which is more important, the health of 163 1 our residents or the profits of large corporations? 2 If the answer is the large corporations, shame on us, 3 our politicians and our corporations. 4 A wind turbine farm is being built close to 5 our farm in section 2. 6 HEARING OFFICER: You have about 20 7 seconds. 8 MS. MOORE: Thank you. We have higher 9 than normal wind speeds and more frequent windy days. 10 This means higher levels and toxins, pathogens and 11 odors flowing to nearby properties. Children, the 12 elderly and those with chronic lung and heart 13 disorders are at greatest risk. There are already 14 people with asthma, emphysema, diabetes and heart 15 disorders in the area who will become sicker. 16 Why should we believe that South Morgan Acres 17 will be any different than any other CAFO? It won't. 18 We would ask that IDOA refuse this 19 application, and we ask that the McDonough County 20 Board vote no. Thank you. 21 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. Are there 22 questions for this witness? Any questions? I see 23 none. Thank you. 24 Next up is William Sullivan. 164 1 MR. SULLIVAN: My name is Bill Sullivan, 2 B-I-L-L, S-U-L-L-I-V-A-N. 3 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 4 MR. SULLIVAN: I got a letter here that I 5 am reading for Stronghurst Road Commissioner together 6 with Bill and Earl back here. My name Larry Fox. I 7 have been employed at the Henderson County Highway 8 Department for the past 38 years and have been elected 9 Stronghurst Road Commissioner for the past 22 years 10 where I do several types of highway maintenance. 11 I have been asked to write this letter in 12 regards to the hog confinements which operate in my 13 township and problems that I have encountered on my 14 roads due to the heavy truck traffic. 15 In the past seven years -- in the past few 16 years, seven new hog confinement buildings have been 17 built which brings the total number of buildings to 11 18 in Stronghurst Township. There are three located on 19 the same blacktop, and this road was built many years 20 ago for light vehicle traffic. The road base is not 21 heavy enough nor is it wide enough to support 22 semi-truck traffic year around, especially in the 23 spring when all roads become soft. 24 This past spring I received a phone call from 165 1 a deputy sheriff who had traveled this particular road 2 in the morning and then again in the afternoon. He 3 reported to me that the heavy truck traffic, heavy 4 truck traffic had torn up several locations in that 5 short time span. I placed a call to the feed supplier 6 about the road damage and asked to set up an 7 appointment to meet and look at the damage together. 8 When we met, he agreed the road was bad shape, but he 9 was not willing, not willing to provide me with any in 10 repairing it. The worst areas were scarified and 11 gravel added which, due to dry weather and time, they 12 remain gravel which does not make the taxpayers living 13 along this road very happy. 14 I have since checked the Henderson County 15 courthouse and have inquired about the amount of taxes 16 paid on these buildings. The buildings I had checked 17 on paid $11,999.54 each. Each. However, Stronghurst 18 Township only receives $1523.96. Of course, not all 19 of that money goes to the road fund. He told me about 20 8 to $900 goes towards the roads. 21 These large confinements have been compared to 22 factories. When I discussed this with the county 23 board member, he stated these confinements were 24 agriculture and were no different than farmers who 166 1 farm 2 to 3,000 acres of land. I pointed out to him 2 that large farms have fields in various locations only 3 moving large loads in late spring and fall whereas the 4 confinements are in one central location and have to 5 be shipped with feed weekly whether the roads are 6 solid or not. 7 When confinements were first built, the best 8 and most direct route for the trucks were agreed upon 9 by the feed supplier and myself in hopes that keeping 10 roads repair down to a minimum. However, we have 11 encountered some problems with some of the feed 12 company truck drivers who vary from the approved route 13 thus tearing up yet more roads. 14 I hope this gives you an idea of how the hog 15 confinements have affected township roads and some of 16 the problems which I have encountered. 17 Thank you for your time, Larry L. Fox, 18 Stronghurst Township Road Commissioner. I am employed 19 by the Stronghurst commissioner. 20 HEARING OFFICER: Are there questions for 21 this witness? Yes, over here. Ms. Martin. 22 MS. MARTIN: When -- are you in charge of 23 like de-icing of the roads and removing snow as well? 24 MR. SULLIVAN: I am in part of that, yes. 167 1 I do most of that. 2 MS. MARTIN: Do you -- are you required to 3 remove snow on the hog confinement roads first? 4 MR. SULLIVAN: No. 5 MS. MARTIN: Okay. That's the way it was 6 in Oklahoma. 7 MR. SULLIVAN: No, we get roads where the 8 school bus routes is. It probably is in front of the 9 confinements because there is houses that people have 10 put up brand new houses, and these people have come in 11 and put these confinements up, and they are not very 12 happy. They have talked to their senators, their 13 congressmen, and it seemed like Department of 14 Agriculture just kind of over -- kicks it into a 15 ditch, doesn't want to do anything about it. People 16 out there just got to put up with the smell of it. 17 HEARING OFFICER: Are there other 18 questions for this witness? Thank you. 19 Next up, Jackie Terrell. 20 MR. SULLIVAN: Also I'd like to put this 21 into evidence because this is clear facts. His son is 22 state police. Don't believe me, one of the police 23 officers here, he may know Cory Fox. 24 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. You read the 168 1 entire letter, didn't you? 2 MR. SULLIVAN: Yes. 3 HEARING OFFICER: It is in the record, 4 then. 5 MR. SULLIVAN: Okay. Thank you. 6 MS. TERRELL: Jackie Terrell, J-A-C-K-I-E, 7 T-E-R-R-E-L-L. 8 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 9 MS. TERRELL: This proposed CAFO will be 10 located just -- 11 MR. GOETSCH: Little closer. 12 MS. TERRELL: Closer? Sorry. Didn't want 13 to eat it. -- just 7,920 feet west of our house. We 14 have lived there for 36 years. It is a centennial 15 farm and has been in our family for over 100 years. 16 We spend many hours outside in the summer mowing and 17 gardening. We love to be outside. We also have many 18 outdoor family gatherings. I like to hang my laundry 19 out on the clothesline, and in the summer we like to 20 sleep with our windows open at night, but I feel that 21 with the stench of the manure of 18,000 hogs, that 22 will probably all change. I don't want ours or our 23 neighbors' lifestyles to have to change so South 24 Morgan Acres can raise healthy pigs. 169 1 South Morgan Acres will also be located just 2 950 feet from the LaMoine River according to the 3 notice of intent to construct. It has already been 4 discussed tonight that there have been pollution 5 violations at other sites that they operate in this 6 part of the state. Why should we believe that things 7 will be any different with this site? We cannot 8 afford to experiment with Illinois waterways. Please 9 don't let this go through. Thank you. 10 HEARING OFFICER: Are there questions for 11 this witness? Any questions? I see none. Thank you. 12 Next up is Don Terrell. 13 MR. TERRELL: Don Terrell, T-E-R-R-E-L-L. 14 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 15 HEARING OFFICER: Put the microphone up a 16 little bit. 17 MR. TERRELL: With the construction of 18 this hog confinement, I'm concerned about ground 19 contamination in our well. We have a shallow dug 20 well. With the amounts of manure that will be 21 generated and applied less than half a mile from us, 22 the manure could seep into our water supply. If 23 manure is applied on top of the frozen ground, 24 couldn't this lead to run-off? 170 1 The facility will only be a few hundred feet 2 from the LaMoine River. Should a crack or spill occur 3 in the pit, where is this water going to go? It is 4 going to go right in the river. 5 The increased traffic on the county road will 6 ruin the road. Our township and our county does not 7 have the money to fix this road. Thank you. 8 HEARING OFFICER: Are there questions for 9 this witness? Yes. Just a second, ma'am. 10 MS. MOORE: Karen Moore. Don, are you 11 aware that the county road, which is Road 400, had 12 extensive damage to it and was just worked on within 13 the last two years and that there was a lot of 14 sinkholes in that road that have had to be repaired? 15 Do you believe that the road is in good 16 condition now? 17 MR. TERRELL: No, there is three spots on 18 that road between Blandinsville and 2300, and you can 19 see all three of those spots today. One them is a 20 mile north of town, one of them is right in front of 21 Mr. Thompson's house and there is another one just 22 half a mile from 2300. They're still rough. You can 23 still feel them. 24 HEARING OFFICER: Are there questions? 171 1 Mr. Anderson. 2 MR. ANDERSON: On those rough spots on 3 those roads, how come your road commissioner and your 4 taxpayers haven't addressed that for the safety, 5 well-being of your community? 6 MR. TERRELL: You will have to ask the 7 county that question. That's a county road and the 8 county road tried to fix them but aren't fixed. They 9 are still rough. You can still feel them on the road. 10 MS. MORRELL: Angela Morrell. Don, can 11 you -- I missed the beginning of the meeting, and I 12 have a feeling you were here for the whole time. 13 Can you tell me if anything was addressed as 14 to who will benefit from this other than South Morgan 15 Acres and possibly the Butlers? 16 MR. TERRELL: They say there will be money 17 to the county, to the township, to the school, that is 18 true. Mrs. Twaddle in her presentation stated that 19 they could get a tax abatement up to 70%. If they 20 wind up with that tax abatement, there won't be much 21 money left over for anybody. 22 HEARING OFFICER: Are there other 23 questions? Thank you. 24 Next is Chris Blevins. State and spell your 172 1 full name, please. 2 MR. BLEVINS: Chris Blevins, 3 B-L-E-V-I-N-S. 4 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 5 MR. BLEVINS: I have stated earlier that I 6 work for Professional Swine Management. I have been 7 in the swine industry for 16 years. I have worked for 8 PSM for the last five. I chose to move my family to 9 Hancock County, Illinois to work for Professional 10 Swine Management because of their ethics and the added 11 value to help the producers instead of working for a 12 large corporation. We still want to call it a large 13 corporation, and we are really not. We work for the 14 family farmers. I grew up on a family grain farm, and 15 it means a lot to me to be able to help producers 16 throughout the United States get a valuable product 17 and continue to pass their farms on down generation 18 after generation. So that's the reason that I chose 19 to move my family where I did and to make that 20 difference. 21 I am one of the support staff with 22 Professional Swine Management. As you seen earlier, 23 we have 320 employees. A large number of those 24 employees answer directly to me. We are part of the 173 1 auditing process to make sure that the environmental 2 programs, procedures that we have are in place. 3 Everytime I drive on a site, I go around the entire 4 facility, and we check everything. I am responsible 5 quarterly on sites, I oversee to pull tile samples, 6 and I can guarantee you that every tile sample is 7 pulled. It is part of our job. It is our commitment 8 to the community, and it is a commitment to my own 9 family that I have chosen to raise in an area not far 10 away from the confinements. 11 If the employees that work for me could be 12 here tonight, if it was not for biosecurity concerns, 13 they would have all been here and all stood in line to 14 tell you what a good company we are trying to build 15 and that we don't want problems within your 16 neighborhoods, that we want to make it work, and in 17 the tough economic times that we are facing today, I 18 believe every job counts, and 16 to 17 jobs in your 19 backyard, the possibility of being able to keep your 20 own sons and daughters close to home and give them 21 different opportunities and different ways to grow in 22 life, I think means a lot, so -- 23 HEARING OFFICER: Are there any questions 24 for this witness? Ms. Davis. 174 1 MS. DAVIS: Mr. Blevins, that was 2 touching. I'm sure you are a very nice man, but if 3 the company is so wonderful, why do they keep getting 4 sued? 5 MR. BLEVINS: I cannot actually answer 6 that question. The one thing I would say is that as 7 Dr. Hollis stated earlier, I think that public 8 perception on what an incident is and what an 9 actual -- 10 MS. DAVIS: It has nothing to do with the 11 public, it has to do with the state EPA. 12 MR. BLEVINS: Well, we have turned in a 13 lot of stuff that were more than an incident deal. I 14 mean, we police ourselves, and in this day and age, it 15 would be the same as why would I go into WalMart, slip 16 and fall and sue them. 17 HEARING OFFICER: Other questions? Behind 18 you. Can you state your name, please? 19 MR. ZELLMANN: Bob Zellmann, 20 Z-E-L-L-M-A-N-N. 21 You made a reference to the fact that you live 22 near a hog confinement. Can you tell me how far you 23 actually are? 24 MR. BLEVINS: There are two hog 175 1 confinements within a couple miles of my house. 2 MR. ZELLMANN: Two miles. Is that two? 3 MR. BLEVINS: That's two miles, but to 4 bring more reference to your statement, I have two 5 young kids at home. Before I chose to come work for 6 Professional Swine Management, I worked in Lancaster 7 County, Pennsylvania for Country View Family Farms, 8 and I lived 150 feet for two years from a 2800 sow 9 confinement. My kids played in the backyard every 10 day. 11 MR. ZELLMANN: Can you tell me the 12 directions of the fans and where you lived in regards 13 to those? 14 MR. BLEVINS: The fans currently from 15 where I am at, those fans actually point to the south, 16 and I actually live southwest of those fans. 17 HEARING OFFICER: Right behind you there. 18 State your name, please. 19 MS. McMEEKAN: Heather McMeekan. 20 Obviously you do care about your job, and I am 21 willing to grant that you and all people who work with 22 you are wonderful people, but did you move further so 23 now you are further away from hog confinements than 24 you were from where you were living before? 176 1 MR. BLEVINS: Yes, I had more growth 2 opportunities with Professional Swine Management and 3 more opportunities to further my career and provide 4 for my family. 5 MS. McMEEKAN: Okay. It was your choice 6 to move further away, they didn't move near you? 7 MR. BLEVINS: No, it was my choice. Like 8 I said, I moved to work for a different company. I 9 have no problem. I have lived on several farms. I 10 have done this for 16 years. 11 MS. McMEEKAN: Thank you. 12 HEARING OFFICER: Other questions? Right 13 here. 14 MS. MOORE: Karen Moore, M-O-O-R-E. 15 Chris, are you aware of the study from North 16 Carolina that Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. was involved with 17 that he stated that there are ten farmers that lose 18 their job for every CAFO that is built? 19 MR. BLEVINS: I have heard that study. I 20 grew up on a family farm. As I stated earlier, in 21 today's economy the reason I am not at home farming 22 with my father is because the opportunities are not 23 there, and it is not from the region I am from in 24 southern Indiana that we can't do it, it is because of 177 1 the fact of how many acres you have to have today to 2 sustain yourself. 3 So I don't really believe that we can blame 4 CAFO's for this. CAFO's, as I stated earlier, gave me 5 a chance to stay within agriculture and to continue to 6 provide for my family and do something that I love. 7 MS. MOORE: I would also like to ask you, 8 how many are -- are many of your jobs low paying jobs 9 like minimum wage? 10 MR. BLEVINS: We actually do pay above 11 minimum wage. If you come in fresh out of high 12 school, not much education that way, you're looking at 13 making 9.75 an hour, but we do supply benefits, and in 14 this industry the sky is the limit. I started out 16 15 years ago. I took it on as a part-time job during the 16 summer for Land of Lakes making $5.50 an hour. I 17 won't disclose what I make today, but I make a lot 18 more than $5.50 an hour, and it is an opportunity that 19 anybody's child can get into, and we all know the 20 rising costs of going onto school. It is just not for 21 everybody, but it is an opportunity. 22 MS. MOORE: Have you noticed any health 23 problems with yourself by working in -- 24 MR. BLEVINS: I actually have no health 178 1 problems other than I have high blood pressure, and I 2 have had that way before. It is genetic. 3 MR. SULLIVAN: Bill Sullivan. What is 4 your age? 5 MR. SULLIVAN: I'm 34. 6 HEARING OFFICER: Are there other 7 questions? State your name, please. 8 MS. COOK: I'm sorry. Ramona Cook. 9 Sir, you mentioned that you turn in, as you 10 said, a lot of these yourself referring to spills and 11 things that the EPA would be interested in. 12 Number one, that's required by law, isn't it? 13 You are not doing that out of the goodness of your 14 heart. 15 MR. BLEVINS: No, you are not doing it out 16 of the goodness of your heart, but having the 17 opportunity to work with several other companies, I 18 can tell you that not every company is as honest as 19 the company that I work for. The previous company 20 that I worked for, if it was on site, we could clean 21 it up and did not have to report it, we didn't. 22 MS. COOK: Okay. So am I to assume then, 23 that a lot of these happen? 24 MR. BLEVINS: No. 179 1 MS. COOK: You have been sued for nine of 2 your existing CAFO's by Lisa Madigan's office for 3 various spills spanning a period, I think from 2003 to 4 2009, but you said a lot of these we turn in 5 ourselves. So that does mean that there are lot of 6 these. 7 MR. BLEVINS: There are not a lot of 8 these. The incidences and stuff that are reported, we 9 report ourselves. It is not as if an inspector or a 10 neighbor or somebody is reporting it on us. 11 MS. COOK: I'm understanding that, but you 12 said there are a lot of incidences? 13 MR. BLEVINS: The ones that are reported, 14 a lot of those the company, we will report ourselves. 15 The spillage deal at the stand pipe at Wild Cat Farms, 16 we called that in ourselves, which we could have 17 easily not done that but wanting to make sure we do 18 the right thing. 19 Like I said, I raise my kids and my family in 20 this area. I drink the water, and I am not going to 21 jeopardize that because I plan on living here for a 22 long time. 23 MS. COOK: So how many incidences do you 24 have in a given year? 180 1 MR. BLEVINS: I could not tell you how 2 many. The only one I have been involved in has been 3 the one at Wild Cat Farms. 4 HEARING OFFICER: Are there other 5 questions? 6 MS. COOK: I'm not understanding what you 7 said, sir. You said that there were -- 8 MR. BLEVINS: I said the ones that have 9 been reported, ma'am -- 10 MS. COOK: Right. 11 MR. BLEVINS: -- a lot of that stuff we 12 report ourselves as a company. 13 MS. COOK: I understand that, but how 14 many? 15 MR. BLEVINS: I do not know. 16 MS. COOK: Thank you. 17 HEARING OFFICER: Other questions? 18 MS. HINKLEY: Mary Hinkley, Blandinsville. 19 I was wondering, do you own your home? 20 MR. BLEVINS: Yes, I do. 21 MS. HINKLEY: You do now? 22 MR. BLEVINS: Yes, I do. 23 MS. HINKLEY: Thank you. 24 HEARING OFFICER: Clear across over here. 181 1 MS. MARTIN: Kathy Martin. Clarify for 2 me, do you work on a hog farm or you work in the 3 corporate office? 4 MR. BLEVINS: I am actually considered 5 based out of the office, but I'm on a farm every day. 6 I was actually in a site similar to the ones that 7 we're proposing here this morning, 5650 sow farm. I 8 was there for six hours this morning. 9 MS. MARTIN: What do you do there? 10 MR. BLEVINS: I actually oversee 11 production, so I make sure all the company's 12 procedures are in place on the production site, I 13 monitor, as I stated earlier, the environmental part 14 from the outside. We do outside audits on every 15 visit. There is five people that are in my group. 16 MS. MARTIN: I wanted to get a clear 17 picture of what you actually do so I can ask you a 18 question. I didn't want to assume what you were 19 doing. 20 When you go and look at the records of the hog 21 farm, do you review the nutrient management plan? 22 MR. BLEVINS: The nutrient management plan 23 is in the office on every farm. We actually have a 24 person that takes care of all of that for us. We 182 1 have -- 2 MS. MARTIN: But do you check? 3 MR. BLEVINS: I do check it, make sure it 4 is up-to-date. That's part of my job. 5 MS. MARTIN: Okay. So for like the 6 facility that's planned here today, how much manure do 7 you feel it will produce and how much nitrogen per 8 year? 9 MR. BLEVINS: I'm very unsure of that, 10 ma'am. That's not something that I deal with. As I 11 stated, I deal with employees, the production, and 12 that's all left to people that are a whole lot smarter 13 than I am. 14 MS. MARTIN: Do you test for hydrogen 15 sulfide exposure for your employees? 16 MR. BLEVINS: Yes, we do. We actually 17 have monitors that the employees carry with them 18 throughout the facility at all times. They are an 19 electronic monitor. They last for two years, and we 20 replace them before the battery runs out. 21 MS. MARTIN: Do you quantify how much 22 hydrogen sulfide gas is generated by the pits and how 23 much is exhausted into the environment? 24 MR. BLEVINS: No, we don't, ma'am. Not 183 1 that I am aware. 2 HEARING OFFICER: Other questions? State 3 your name. 4 MR. SULLIVAN: Bill Sullivan. How bad is 5 the roads where you are at? What kind of roads are 6 they, gravel roads, blacktop, concrete? 7 MR. BLEVINS: We have both gravel roads 8 and blacktop roads, and I would say that those roads 9 even through some -- you know, you do see what you are 10 talking about in the construction part of it. You're 11 going to see some road tear-up, but it sounds like, 12 based on the conversation already, you have already 13 got some issues with that. 14 MR. SULLIVAN: Do you -- does your PMS pay 15 for any part of the -- PSM. You know what I'm talking 16 about. Not the female, not the female thing. 17 MR. BLEVINS: I know. I was checking 18 myself to make sure. 19 MR. SULLIVAN: Did your company, in other 20 words, help pay for any of this? Sorry about that. 21 I'm not trying to be -- 22 MR. BLEVINS: I think every specific 23 situation is different, and that would have to be 24 assessed at the time of construction and building and 184 1 everything like that. I mean, we will have to make 2 sure that we can get trailers and stuff. 3 HEARING OFFICER: One last question in the 4 back. 5 MR. GEGAS: Chris Gegas, G-E-G-A-S. You 6 said -- I'm curious. You said you'd bring down 7 several of your employees if it weren't for security 8 concerns. 9 MR. BLEVINS: Biosecurity. We do not 10 allow employees as far as without down time and stuff, 11 especially this time of the year with the PRRS virus 12 in the area, it does transfer on clothes and stuff, 13 and we have different tiers because we produce 14 genetics, and we have to safeguard all of that for our 15 customers. So we kind of limit the activity to let 16 them all at group meetings like this because we would 17 not allow those employees, after being here together, 18 to go back in the farm this evening. And that farm 19 has an alarm system and stuff on it. In the case of 20 emergency, I cannot afford to have all my people tied 21 up here. 22 MR. GEGAS: Okay. That blows my mind. So 23 you are trying to keep different people from different 24 facilities coming together and then going back to 185 1 their facilities; is that right? 2 MR. BLEVINS: Without proper down time. 3 It is standard operating practice within the industry, 4 and it is what helps safeguard us, against, everything 5 from different flu viruses and the PRRS virus. 6 MR. GEGAS: Thanks. 7 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Thank you very 8 much. 9 Next up, Barbara Ann Adams. State and spell 10 your name. Do you need some help with the microphone? 11 MS. ADAMS: I think I do. I don't know 12 how to do it. Barbara Ann Adams, A-D-A-M-S. 13 HEARING OFFICER: Could you step up to the 14 microphone just a little, please? Raise your right 15 hand. 16 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 17 MS. ADAMS: I think South Morgan Acres has 18 made a poor location choice. This field is located 19 over the LaMoine River. I have a map here that I am 20 going to submit. It shows the -- it is from the 21 LaMoine River ecosystem web site. A spill of any type 22 would follow the natural course and go down to the 23 river. It could be disastrous for the entire LaMoine 24 River ecosystem. Professional Swine Management has a 186 1 suit pending before the Illinois Pollution Board for 2 violations at nine of their locations. Can we trust 3 PSM to protect the ecosystem? 4 We are farmers. We're not against farming or 5 agriculture. My husband's family has farmed in 6 McDonough and Henderson County for years. The land 7 they settled in Henderson County was a Civil War grant 8 to his great great grandfather. We care about this 9 land and this river. We raised hogs, and we know what 10 hogs are like. 11 We have a neighbor one mile to the north of us 12 with a hog confinement next to his house. We did not 13 complain when he built it because it is located next 14 to his house. If there is a problem, he will see that 15 it is taken care of because he lives there. South 16 Morgan Acres will be built in a field with no farmer 17 anywhere around, only workers from PSM. Will they 18 protect the LaMoine River and the ecosystem? 19 I'm concerned about my 87-year-old husband. 20 He's had heart bypass surgery, stints. Will there be 21 more pollutants in the air? Will PSM protect our air? 22 I would urge you to make a visit to see the 23 beginning of the LaMoine River ecosystem. Go down the 24 road, see how the field lays. Look up from the road, 187 1 and you will see South Morgan Acres has made a poor 2 location choice. 3 And I live in Henderson County. I don't see 4 what advantage it is going to be for South Morgan 5 Acres to build on this location. We are not going to 6 gain any tax dollars or anything else. 7 I also have a letter I want to submit with 8 maps that shows that Old Bedford Church is active. 9 There are more people gathering there each week than 10 there are in the Old Bedford Cemetery. It is listed 11 as the closest gathering place. 12 HEARING OFFICER: Are you finished? 13 MS. ADAMS: Yes. 14 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Are there 15 questions for this witness? 16 MS. TWADDLE: Barbara, was your -- 17 HEARING OFFICER: Use the microphone, 18 please. 19 MS. TWADDLE: Laura Twaddle. 20 Barbara, was your house included in the 21 designation of the nearest residence? 22 MS. ADAMS: Yes, it was. It was included. 23 It was listed as a non-farm resident. We have always 24 considered we were farmers living on our own farm. 188 1 MS. TWADDLE: And the Rutzens, are they 2 within the same distance of your house? 3 MS. ADAMS: Yes, but -- well, their shed 4 is in it but not their house. 5 MS. TWADDLE: You stated earlier that it 6 did not show up on the map; is that correct? 7 They had not marked your house on the map that 8 was presented to us? 9 MS. ADAMS: No, I said that they said 10 populated area. I said -- 11 MS. TWADDLE: Okay. 12 MS. ADAMS: -- the house is populated 13 there. 14 HEARING OFFICER: Other questions? Thank 15 you. 16 Okay. I will enter into the record as Exhibit 17 #7 testimony from Barbara Ann Adams. 18 (Exhibit #7 marked for identification 19 and admitted.) 20 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. We need to move 21 along here because it is 10:25, and we have to be 22 completely out of here by midnight, which means we 23 have a little over an hour left to get things wrapped 24 up here, and we have about, not quite 30, about 28 189 1 people left to go. So we need to move along here. 2 Next up is Lee Ward. State and spell your 3 name, please. 4 MR. WARD: Lee Ward. Ward is spelled 5 W-A-R-D. 6 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 7 HEARING OFFICER: Step up to the 8 microphone. 9 MR. WARD: How is that? 10 HEARING OFFICER: That's good. 11 MR. WARD: I like bacon. I like sausage 12 and ham. I really like a good pork chop cooked on the 13 grill with custom pork seasoning from Oswego, Illinois 14 or Riley's award winning seasoning, a farm tradition 15 since 1974. That's from Pittsfield, Illinois. Yeah, 16 I know my seasonings in Illinois products. I like to 17 support Illinois products. 18 I support production agriculture. Production 19 is the act of producing, the creation of value by 20 producing products and services. That means jobs, 21 payroll, taxes. 22 Contrary to popular belief, the government 23 does not create jobs. You do. We all create jobs. 24 When you buy that bacon, somebody has to grow the corn 190 1 to feed the pigs, raise the pigs, process the pigs and 2 bring your bacon to the store. 3 I stood up in a meeting very similar to this 4 in 2003 in Carthage, Illinois, Hancock County to 5 support Western Creek Farms which is west of LaHarpe 6 in Hancock County. This farm is operated by my 7 daughter and son-in-law. My grandchildren help take 8 care of the hogs on that farm. You saw the pictures 9 up on the screen. 10 I support production agriculture because I 11 like bacon. 12 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. Are there 13 questions for this witness? 14 Over here. State your name. 15 MS. McMEEKAN: Heather McMeekan. Did you 16 write that speech? 17 MR. WARD: Yes, I did. It took about 20 18 minutes this morning. 19 MS. McMEEKAN: Okay. So you haven't given 20 that anywhere else, that same one? 21 MR. WARD: No, I just wrote it this 22 morning. 23 MS. McMEEKAN: Okay. Do you live in 24 McDonough County? 191 1 MR. WARD: I live in McDonough County, 2 Blandinsville, Illinois. 3 MS. McMEEKAN: Blandinsville, Illinois. 4 Do you stand to profit from this? 5 MR. WARD: I do not. 6 MS. McMEEKAN: Thank you. 7 HEARING OFFICER: Other questions. Ms. 8 Hudson? 9 MS. HUDSON: Do you think that most of the 10 people that are opposing this like bacon? 11 MR. WARD: I guess I'm not sure that I 12 know how to answer that question. Sorry. 13 MS. HUDSON: Yeah. Well, my point is 14 that most of the people that I work with in Illinois 15 and across the country like bacon, and most of the 16 people are mainstream farmers and citizens who like 17 bacon. We have a problem with the way it is being 18 produced. Has nothing to do with liking bacon. 19 HEARING OFFICER: Do you have a question 20 for the witness? 21 MS. HUDSON: I asked him if he thought 22 that most of these people -- how many people in here 23 like bacon? 24 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Direct your 192 1 question to the witness, please. 2 MS. HUDSON: Well, he didn't know so I 3 thought -- 4 HEARING OFFICER: Ms. Hudson, please. 5 MS. HUDSON: Yes. Do you see -- did you 6 see the hands going up? I think most of these people 7 consume bacon. They're not from PETA, they're not 8 from the Humane Society, they are just normal people 9 who have lived here -- 10 HEARING OFFICER: Do you have a question, 11 please? 12 MS. HUDSON: -- forever. Do you realize 13 that? 14 MR. WARD: Yes, I realize most of these 15 people are from either McDonough County or the 16 counties surrounding. 17 MS. HUDSON: Right. Do you know anything 18 about the new facility going up in LaHarpe? It was in 19 the paper. 20 MR. WARD: I thought we were talking 21 about the facility at Morgan Creek in northern -- 22 MS. HUDSON: I was just asking. 23 MR. WARD: No, I'm not familiar with that. 24 MS. HUDSON: Okay. Thank you very much. 193 1 I like bacon, too. 2 HEARING OFFICER: Are there questions? 3 MR. HUFF: Nick Huff, H-U F-F. 4 I'm just wondering in moving forward here, if 5 it is going to be possible for mom and pop farms to 6 continue to meet the food demands of the growing 7 population. 8 MR. WARD: I think that the consolidation 9 that we have seen in the pork industry in the last 15 10 years is proof that it is going to be very difficult 11 to produce pork in an economical way on a small scale. 12 MR. HUFF: So you say we are going to 13 probably be dependant on larger scale production farms 14 to meet our food demands? 15 MR. WARD: I don't know if I am enough of 16 an expert to answer that, but the trend that I see in 17 pork production is to larger scale operations, the 18 trend I see in cattle production is to larger scale 19 operations, and the trend I see in grain production is 20 larger scale operations. 21 I don't know that I necessarily like that. I 22 have got to go through consolidation and changes. I 23 have been in production agriculture pretty much my 24 whole working life. I used to run a mom and pop 194 1 fertilizer plant. Between 1976 and 1985 I purchased 2 three small supply businesses, put them together, and 3 by 1998 those weren't big enough anymore. So we sold 4 out to a little company called ConAgra, and that has 5 changed. We have changed hands four times since 1998 6 to get to where we are now. 7 I work for Crop Production Services which is a 8 part of Agrium which is a Canadian owned company, so I 9 understand consolidation. 10 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you very much. 11 Next up, Tim Maiers. 12 MR. MAIERS: Tim Maiers, M-A-I-E-R-S. 13 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 14 MR. MAIERS: My name is Tim Maiers. I 15 live near Payson, Illinois in Adams County. I do work 16 for the Illinois Pork Producers Association, so I 17 appreciate everybody raising their hand that said they 18 like bacon. Thank you very much. Thank you. So just 19 full disclosure. I do work for the Illinois Pork 20 Producers Association. I also have a small farm, 21 280-acre farm that has been in my family for three 22 generations. I have raised pigs for my 4H and FFA 23 projects, worked on hog farms as well. 24 I would like to offer these comments on behalf 195 1 of the pork industry and many farm families who 2 proudly raise pork. The pork industry has undergone 3 an enormous amount of change over the last several 4 years. We, as consumers, have demanded a consistent, 5 high quality, safe and inexpensive food supply. This, 6 combined with the consolidation of retail outlets and 7 processors, have forced producers to change the way 8 they do business to feed a growing population and 9 continue to make a living. 10 Today's farms look different than they did 11 just a few decades ago but so do many of our homes and 12 businesses. The size of farms has grown, but that 13 doesn't mean we have lost sight of the values that 14 have always guided farmers; safe food, quality owned 15 care and protection of our land, air and water. 16 The last time I checked, we still live in America in a 17 capitalistic society where people should be allowed to 18 exhibit an entrepreneurial spirit that founded this 19 country. 20 This proposed farm is an example of one of the 21 many ways farmers are adapting to survive. Although 22 hog farms have gotten larger and more specialized, the 23 overwhelming majority of farmers in McDonough County 24 and throughout Illinois are good stewards of the land 196 1 because we know that protecting our natural resources 2 is important for our communities and future 3 generations. 4 I would like to briefly address concerns that 5 are often expressed about the environment and health 6 issues. Large and small farms have a responsibility 7 to adopt management practices that protect our natural 8 resources and limit any environmental impacts. Sound 9 environmental protection can be achieved regardless of 10 the size of our farm or the number of animals we 11 raise. 12 Today's farms employ modern technology and 13 innovations that allow us to better capture and 14 recycle our valuable nutrients than we did just a 15 generation ago. Illinois farming families are firmly 16 committed to protecting the air, water and land on and 17 around our farms. 18 Pork producers are held to a zero discharge 19 standard in their management of manure. All manure is 20 required to be completely contained in manure handling 21 structures such as concrete pits and applied to fields 22 according to crop needs. 23 In March 2006, the Iowa DNR announced the 24 results of a three-year air quality study. The study 197 1 measured air quality in and around some of Iowa's 2 largest CAFO's. There was 1,708 measurements taken. 3 In 93% of the measurements taken were within safe 4 human health guidelines as established by 5 environmental health officials. 6 HEARING OFFICER: Twenty seconds. 7 MR. MAIERS: In closing I would like to 8 say one of our greatest needs as a society is to 9 produce a safe, quality, affordable food supply. By 10 expanding and adapting new technologies and 11 efficiencies, farmers can meet those needs better than 12 anyone else. 13 Be proud to live in a county that is a leader 14 in producing food for your families as well as 15 families all over the world. I can think of no 16 greater business or occupation I would like to have in 17 our communities. 18 HEARING OFFICER: Are there questions for 19 this witness? Hang on. Mr. Hudson? 20 MR. HUDSON: Howard Hudson, H-U-D-S-O-N. 21 I have one question for you. I heard earlier 22 tonight the presentations, whatever from the -- 23 comments from the people that there are approximately 24 nine ongoing violations with Lisa Madigan against PSM 198 1 which obviously means they are breaking the law from 2 time to time. 3 My question to you is with pork producers, why 4 is it that the Illinois Farm Bureau, American Farm 5 Bureau, Pork Producers have publicly stated they're 6 calling for the complete abolishment of the EPA? 7 If we do not have them, we have no one to 8 police anything. 9 MR. MAIERS: Illinois Pork Producers made 10 that statement. I can't comment about the other 11 organizations. We work very closely with the Illinois 12 EPA, and we believe if farmers have problems and 13 pollute, that should be taken care of. We do not 14 support those that support pollution. 15 So do accidents happen? Sure, they happen in 16 our all lives. So if that happens, there are 17 provisions in place. 18 I think one of the things we often forget when 19 talk about these things, once these buildings are 20 built, it is not done. They're not scot-free. It is 21 not they can do whatever they want. The Illinois EPA 22 is there to make sure they are doing what is right, 23 and if they don't, there are mechanisms in place to 24 correct problems. 199 1 So we work very closely with the Illinois EPA, 2 and we do not support or promote getting rid of the 3 EPA. 4 HEARING OFFICER: Another question? Your 5 name? 6 MR. FOWLER: Kurt Fowler, F-O-W-L-E-R. I 7 know that you cited a study from Iowa. Was there a 8 study from Illinois? 9 MR. MAIERS: No, sir, there is not. 10 MR. FOWLER: The study you cited from Iowa 11 said that they found 93% did not have harmful 12 pollutants. We are really concerned about the 7% that 13 do. 14 MR. MAIERS: I understand that, and I can 15 appreciate that. I think the point is, though, that 16 the majority of those -- also that one of the things I 17 didn't get time to mention, they also looked at the 18 emissions at homes where they found that actually -- 19 there is a lot of talk about hydrogen sulfide and 20 ammonia levels, that they have looked at. The 21 majority of those -- this was an Iowa State University 22 study. Actually cat litter boxes, smoking, household 23 cleaning products have a more profound impact on air 24 quality of the home than nearby hog farm. 200 1 So I understand the health concern issue, and 2 I think, you know, I will be the first one to say I 3 think there is more research that needs to be done 4 about that, but I think there are studies that have 5 been done that do not show overwhelming health 6 problems to people living nearby hog farms. 7 MR. FOWLER: My stepfather, my stepfather 8 developed farmer's lung from taking care of hogs, from 9 being in a hog house and taking care of them. So 10 there are health problems associated with that. 11 MR. MAIERS: Was it in a facility like the 12 one we have talked about tonight? 13 HEARING OFFICER: One at a time. Do you 14 have a question, sir? 15 MR. FOWLER: It didn't have a pit. 16 HEARING OFFICER: Further questions? 17 MS. TWADDLE: Laura Twaddle, 18 T-W-A-D-D-L-E. 19 What was the year this study was done? 20 MR. MAIERS: 2006 was when it was 21 announced. It was done for three years, three-year 22 study. 23 MS. TWADDLE: Nothing since then, 2006? 24 MR. MAIERS: That's the one I referenced. 201 1 Do you have a different one? 2 MS. TWADDLE: No, sir, not tonight. 3 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Further 4 questions? 5 MS. MOORE: Karen Moore. How do you 6 explain how the grain industry can continue to feed 7 the CAFO's if grain land is continually taken out of 8 production by the purchase of these CAFO's and how 9 much ground they are taking up? 10 MR. MAIERS: Well, ma'am, I think the 11 disappearance of farm land is a problem, but the 12 amount of land that is being taken for these buildings 13 is far less than the amount that -- for any -- for 14 roads and expansion of our urban areas. 15 So, you know, I think, I think the point, 16 though, is that by having these farms in grain 17 production where we raise grain, we can put that 18 manure back on that land, and we have soil suitable 19 here in Illinois. Not like Oklahoma or other places 20 where they don't have good soils. We have good soils 21 here in Illinois that can take that manure, we can 22 raise more corn, soybeans, we can feed it back to the 23 pigs. It can be a sustainable cycle if it is managed 24 and balanced properly. I think that's why it makes 202 1 sense for grain farmers to look at wanting that manure 2 for their crops because it is a good fertilizer source 3 and improves soil tilth. 4 We have used -- how long have we used manure 5 in fertilizing crops? Thousands and thousands of 6 years. Practices have changed, granted, but we have 7 used animal manure as fertilizer for thousands of 8 years. 9 MS. TWADDLE: I have a second question. 10 Are you aware of the new swine flu strain in 11 Iowa, and how do you -- how concerned are you that 12 that could spread? 13 MR. MAIERS: I have heard about that, and 14 yes, I am concerned about that from what we went 15 through with H1N1 before, but, you know, I think 16 that's one that as we learned more about it, I mean, 17 obviously we need to learn more about it, and yes, I'm 18 concerned about it. 19 MS. TWADDLE: It needs to be a concern, 20 health concern then definitely? 21 MR. MAIERS: Ma'am, that is not also a 22 result of confinements. I mean, that-- 23 MS. TWADDLE: I understand that. 24 MR. MAIERS: Just make that clear. 203 1 HEARING OFFICER: We are going to have to 2 cut the questions off on this witness. We have 24 3 more people who want to testify, and we have about an 4 hour to do that. 5 MR. MAIERS: I will be around afterwards 6 if others have questions. 7 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. Next up is 8 Ryan Barrett. 9 MR. WILSON: He is gone. 10 HEARING OFFICER: Are you Ryan Barrett? 11 MR. WILSON: He had to leave. He left. 12 HEARING OFFICER: Who are you? 13 MR. WILSON: I was going to read for Ryan. 14 HEARING OFFICER: Is it very long? 15 MR. WILSON: Nope. 16 HEARING OFFICER: Come ahead. State and 17 spell your name, please. 18 MR. WILSON: Henry Wilson. 19 HEARING OFFICER: Step up. 20 MR. WILSON: W-I-L-S-O-N. 21 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.). 22 MR. WILSON: This is from Ryan Barrett. 23 Hello. My name is Ryan Barrett. I'm from 24 rural Macomb. Grew up on a farm that raised pigs. I 204 1 have always enjoyed working with animals and decided 2 to major in animal science at Western Illinois 3 University. Since my graduation in 2008, I have 4 worked for Innovative Swine Solutions, a branch of 5 Carthage Veterinary Service. My employment with this 6 company has allowed me to stay local and continue to 7 help out on my family farm. 8 My daily activities with ISS involve working 9 with leading industry companies, producers and pigs. 10 My job allows me to discover and implement better 11 management practices for the swine industry that will 12 increase pig health, efficiency and production. It 13 gives me a great deal of satisfaction to know that I 14 am helping improve the swine industry for my daily 15 task. 16 It is estimated by 2050 world food production 17 will need to double to keep everyone fed. I'm excited 18 for the opportunity to grow swine production and to 19 help increase food production in a safe, efficient and 20 healthy manner. 21 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. This 22 somewhat be difficult for you, but are there questions 23 for this witness? 24 Seeing none, thank you very much. 205 1 Next up, Bob Purdy. 2 UNIDENTIFIED: He went home. 3 HEARING OFFICER: Not here. Okay. Adam 4 Annegers. 5 MR. ANNEGERS: Adam Annegers, 6 A-N-N-E-G-E-R-S. 7 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 8 MR. ANNEGERS: Can I turn this around? Do 9 you have a problem with that? 10 HEARING OFFICER: Well, the court 11 reporter, I think wants to see you here. 12 MR. ANNEGERS: My name is Adam Annegers. 13 I grew up in Stronghurst. It is roughly 15 miles 14 northwest a little bit where this building is being 15 proposed of being built. My family had a small farm. 16 I love raising pigs. I have always loved raising 17 pigs. 18 Working for Professional Swine Management has 19 given me the opportunity to stay close to my home, 20 most of my family. I have worked for PSM for nine 21 years now. When I first started with the company, I 22 managed one of the boar studs. I have since switched 23 to the sow units. I now manage a 6200 unit. There's 24 been a lot of opportunity and growth for me with this 206 1 company. I hope that growth will continue. 2 But I live in Carthage. I have four children. 3 They're 14, 11, 7 and 3. I am a member of the 4 Carthage Volunteer Fire Department. Other people that 5 work for PSM are volunteer fire department people in 6 other districts. I enjoy coaching my kids' ball teams 7 and helping basketball, football, baseball, whatever 8 they are doing. Working for PSM, they have given me 9 an opportunity to do that. That's all that I have. 10 HEARING OFFICER: Are there questions for 11 this witness? Yes. 12 MR. THOMPSON: We heard about some 13 different opportunities of working for PSM in the 14 area. 15 As a neighbor of this proposed facility, I was 16 wondering who is the PR person for PSM that comes and 17 knocks on your door and looks you in the eye and 18 shakes your hand and says, you know, we are planning 19 to come into the area, this is, you know, what we want 20 to do for you, and this is what you can expect from 21 us? 22 Are you aware of any positions within PSM, 23 people doing that, because in this situation, it was a 24 fluke accident that our neighborhood even heard about 207 1 it? 2 MR. ANNEGERS: To my knowledge I do not 3 know that person. You can call the Carthage Vet 4 Service office, 217-357-2811. The receptionist can 5 direct you to anybody that will talk to you about 6 that. 7 HEARING OFFICER: Further questions? 8 Further questions? 9 MS. MARTIN: Kathy Martin. Do you know 10 the OSHA exposure limit for H2S? 11 MR. ANNEGERS: No, I do not. 12 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you very much. 13 Next up is Janet Ruddy. Janet? She left. 14 Okay. Henry Wilson? Henry must have left. 15 Clee Dixon? 16 MR. DIXON: Clee, C-L-E-E, D-I-X-O-N. 17 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 18 MR. DIXON: I would like to tell the young 19 man there about the nutrient value. I just got a 20 printout. We get a printout from the applicator each 21 year. I don't know for sure the numbers, so I didn't 22 want to say earlier, but if you want to get with me, I 23 will share the information, show you how much NPK is 24 in the manure and our rate of application. I will let 208 1 you look at the whole thing if you would like. 2 I also wanted to say that the future of the 3 pork industry and future of future sites in the pork 4 industry is absolutely dependent on how these two men 5 treat their neighbors. I am sure they will want to 6 treat them well for the sake of the industry and their 7 site. 8 We have got an exterior drain around our unit. 9 It's been there eight years. We have never had any 10 violations, and they can check it anytime they want, 11 and they have a lot of times. 12 We did have some road issues when we built our 13 unit. The tandems is what really tore it up, not the 14 semis. The big trucks that would bring it in, that 15 would be easier on the road. I think Bill would -- he 16 is gone now, but the on-site plant will help big time. 17 MR. CALLAHAN: Right here. 18 MR. DIXON: Your concerns about working 19 with neighbors, we work with neighbors the best we can 20 to address their concerns. We have -- I have never 21 personally had one of my neighbors come to me with a 22 complaint, but we have installed trees. We did 23 install one windbreak tree buffer for one lady that 24 said she didn't want to see the buildings, and we put 209 1 in spruce trees to throw up a buffer for her. 2 We did put in a pump station for our semi 3 wash. At the time we installed it, there just was not 4 a lot of rules and regulations for a truck wash. We 5 was, I assume, one of the first ones, and we went with 6 a filter strip grass because at the time that was good 7 enough for an open front feed lot just water run-off. 8 So we installed that, and later they asked us to put 9 in a pump station. We elected to scoff at that 10 because we didn't really think it was fair without a 11 lot of regulations to tell us to start with what to 12 do. So we wrangled with them a little bit. Finally 13 we just paid the fine, and that was the end of it. 14 But our violation, in response to the man back 15 here, was a violation about disinfected rinse water -- 16 HEARING OFFICER: Ten seconds. 17 MR. DIXON: -- that we had out of our 18 truck wash, not manure, not bedding, disinfected rinse 19 water. We addressed it the best we could. Thank you 20 HEARING OFFICER: Are there questions for 21 this witness? 22 MR. MASON: Monte Mason. I just have two 23 questions for Clee. 24 One is how close do you live to the building, 210 1 and how often do you smell any odor from the building? 2 MR. DIXON: I live about three-quarters of 3 a mile northeast of our unit, and maybe twice a 4 summer, a couple times in the summer on a real still, 5 humid day if the wind just happens to be exactly in my 6 direction, I will -- we will smell it once in awhile 7 of an evening. But you have 358 other degrees that 8 the wind can blow that you won't be smelling it. 9 UNIDENTIFIED: But your neighbors might. 10 HEARING OFFICER: Are there other 11 questions? 12 MS. MORRELL: Angela Morrell. 13 HEARING OFFICER: Can you state your name? 14 MS. MORRELL: Angela Morrell, 15 M-O-R-R-E-L-L. 16 Where is your facility that you are speaking 17 of? 18 MR. DIXON: Southwestern McDonough County 19 right on LaMoine Township. 20 MS. MORRELL: The name of it? 21 MR. DIXON: Pinnacle, LLC. 22 HEARING OFFICER: State your name. 23 MR. WEISS: Matthew Weiss, W-E-I-S-S. How 24 many pigs do you have in your facility? 211 1 MR. DIXON: Well, the pigs just vary 2 from -- 3 MR. WEISS: In general? 4 MR. DIXON: -- during the day, but our 5 sows produce 27 or 8 pigs per sow per year. We have 6 got 3600 sows, so just math it out. But it is a large 7 scale, similar. 8 MR. ANNEGERS: Adam Annegers, 9 A-N-N-E-G-E-R-S. 10 Is there a house located on this pig farm? 11 MR. DIXON: Yeah, right on it. 12 MR. ANNEGERS: And the manager of that 13 building lives in that house, correct? 14 MR. DIXON: Yes, yes. 15 MR. ANNEGERS: He has three young children 16 living there right now also? 17 MR. DIXON: Yes. Yes, he does. 18 MR. ANNEGERS: Has the property value of 19 your house decreased with the pig building? 20 MR. DIXON: No, not that I am aware of. 21 MR. ZELLMANN: DO you think -- 22 HEARING OFFICER: State your name. 23 MR. ZELLMANN: Bob Zellmann. Do you think 24 having somebody living there 24/7 increases the 212 1 likelihood of there being reporting if there is a 2 problem? 3 Does that management there make that facility 4 a better-run facility in your opinion versus somebody 5 there part-time? 6 Somebody living on there, watching it, do you 7 think that's better procedure than having somebody 8 work part-time? 9 MR. DIXON: Well, it doesn't hurt. 10 MR. ZELLMANN: Yes or no? 11 MR. DIXON: But this is 1500 feet away 12 where this house is. 13 MR. ZELLMANN: Do you think that it is 14 better that somebody is there 24/7 versus a 15 part-timer? 16 I'm asking you a question. I don't think 17 you're answering it. 18 MR. DIXON: In the unit or in the house? 19 MR. ZELLMANN: On the unit, to run the 20 unit safely. Is it better to have -- 21 MR. DIXON: The only time we ever have 22 somebody staying in the unit is when we perceive 23 possibly a snow problem, and we wouldn't be able to 24 get people in and out. That's a huge advantage for 213 1 them to stay right there but -- 2 MR. ZELLMANN: I guess I'm not making 3 myself -- 4 MR. DIXON: I guess I'm too dense. 5 MR. ZELLMANN: That's all right. Is it 6 better to have somebody on site 24/7? 7 Do you think that that facility is run better 8 to have somebody local and close versus somebody who 9 is there only part-time? I'm asking you. 10 MR. DIXON: I don't see it as a huge 11 advantage, no. 12 MR. ZELLMANN: Okay. 13 MS. McMEEKAN: Heather McMeekan. Can you 14 please list the names of your three closest neighbors? 15 MR. DIXON: Dennis Carson. He lives 16 northwest; Allen and Velma Jean Beal, they live 17 southwest. They're only 1100 feet. My parents live 18 about 1200 feet. 19 I offered at our last meeting to give all the 20 names of my neighbors to the county board. If any of 21 them wanted to talk to them, I said I would hook them 22 up. I also offered to drive any really concerned 23 person with a legitimate concern, I offered to take 24 them around our unit. It is well kept. It is well 214 1 mowed. It is very well managed from a production 2 standpoint and from our neighbors' standpoint. 3 MS. McMEEKAN: You said you didn't know if 4 your property values had decreased. Have you tried to 5 sell your home? 6 MR. DIXON: No, I haven't sold my home, 7 but farmland values of my area went up in the eight 8 years since we built our unit. 9 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Quickly. 10 MS. MARTIN: Kathy Martin. With regards 11 to your mortality rate at the sow facility, can you 12 give us some ideas of like stillbirth versus sows 13 dying, and are you a facility that uses compost? 14 MR. DIXON: That's a production manager. 15 I don't deal directly with the hands-on pigs. We hire 16 CVS. They furnish our production manager. We have 17 been very well satisfied, you just have to ask him. 18 It would be easy to get one of our printouts. 19 MS. MARTIN: You don't know anything about 20 the mortality rate at your facility, the one that you 21 are saying is great? 22 I mean, I don't understand. I thought you 23 were the manager of that facility? 24 MR. DIXON: No. 215 1 MS. MARTIN: Oh, sorry. Okay. 2 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Thank you very 3 much. Next up we have Larry Grenter. 4 MR. GRENTER: Larry Grenter, 5 G-R-E-N-T-E-R. 6 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 7 MR. GRENTER: I'm going to bring a little 8 different twist to this maybe. This company, PSM has 9 given me an opportunity to come back to the state I 10 was born and raised in. As a farmer, I had my own 11 farm, my father had a farm. We couldn't make a go of 12 it, so I have been out of state for many, many years. 13 I have come back here to raise hogs, what I love and 14 I've done all my life, to see my grandkids, and it is 15 an expanding, growing company. 16 But I have lived next to hog confinements all 17 my life. I'm perfectly healthy. Sometimes I wish 18 people could see the inside of it and see what all the 19 good we do do and how we handle everything, the 20 environment, the waste management, the health issues 21 of the people and of the hogs, to do the right thing 22 at all times. That's all that I have. 23 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. Are there 24 questions for this witness? 216 1 MS. MARTIN: Kathy Martin. So you 2 actually work inside the hog farm? 3 MR. GRENTER: Yes, I am the manager of 4 LaMoine Valley. 5 MS. MARTIN: Okay. Well, wanted to make 6 sure I'm asking the right person the right thing. 7 So how much wash water do you use per year to 8 clean the inside of the hog farm? 9 MR. GRENTER: How many gallons? 10 MS. MARTIN: Yeah. How often do you 11 clean, and do you know the total gallons? 12 MR. GRENTER: I do not know total gallons, 13 but we clean farrow rooms every 21 days and barns 14 twice a year and the floors about once a month, wash 15 them, power wash them all. 16 MS. MARTIN: This is to power wash the 17 feces off of the floor? 18 MR. GRENTER: Yes. 19 HEARING OFFICER: State your name, please. 20 MS. MORRELL: Angela Morrell. You are an 21 employee of PSM? 22 MR. GRENTER: Yes. 23 MS. MORRELL: I am just -- with all the 24 opportunities that PSM is affording all the people 217 1 that are coming up and testifying, I just wonder are 2 you stockholders in the company, or do you have -- it 3 seems interesting to me that if I worked for a 4 company, I would go to a hearing where I had to be 5 there for four hours of my time away from home and 6 stand up, give my testimony. Just interests me if you 7 have -- if you are a stockholder in the company. 8 MR. GRENTER: No, I am not, but I'm very 9 interested in seeing this industry grow and the right 10 message coming out. I have seen these kind of 11 hearings in North Carolina, Oklahoma, Missouri and now 12 here, and the worst thing that I hate is false 13 information being out there, and hopefully by being 14 here, we can give some of the right information out. 15 MS. MARTIN: Kathy Martin. You reminded 16 me. Now, you worked Seaboard. We had talked outside 17 -- 18 MR. GRENTER: Yes. 19 MS. MARTIN: -- that when I was an 20 engineer in Oklahoma, we found that Seaboard had made 21 a mathematical error in the engineering design, and 22 you agreed that that was a grievous error and that was 23 okay, that a lot of times these proceedings find 24 problems that somebody else didn't see, correct? 218 1 MR. GRENTER: We are dealing with this 2 operation here, not Seaboard Oklahoma. 3 MS. MARTIN: But you know what I mean. 4 It is good for people to look at the design and find 5 an error if it is there? 6 MR. GRENTER: It is always good to find 7 mistakes, but we also find an awful lot of our own 8 mistakes, too. 9 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Thank you very 10 much. Next up we have Mark, M-E-E-L-F-R-A maybe from 11 Arenzville. No Mark. 12 Okay. Leyona Wiley, Wilke. 13 MS. WILEY: Leyona Wiley, L-E-Y-O-N-A, 14 Wiley, W-I-L-E-Y. 15 HEARING OFFICER: Sorry about that. 16 MS. WILEY: That's all right. I'm used to 17 it. 18 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 19 MS. WILEY: My brother had asked me to 20 read his letter here, but my parents have a copy of 21 that that they can give as a written document. 22 As an educator, I have learned a long time ago 23 that the mind cannot absorb what the butt cannot 24 endure, and I think we're all beyond that. 219 1 I would just like to make some comments. I am 2 here in support of my parents, Moore Brothers Farms, 3 my brother who now farms their land, and I know they 4 have significant concerns regarding my father's 5 health. My brother talks about the pungent smells 6 that he experienced in working with previous hog 7 confinements that he was in. 8 I'm sure these gentlemen are great people. We 9 saw lots and lots of pictures of people and kids, and 10 I know from my experience in education that we would 11 use a lot of those pictures to get what we want when 12 we wanted to go to school boards to ask for money. 13 My thing is we are people. They're farmers. 14 They would like to be treated as people, and I think 15 we would have gone much further with this had the 16 people that were coming asking for this proposed hog 17 farm come and sat with them and talked with them about 18 their lives and their communities and how they wanted 19 it to grow and been part of those decisions. I think 20 a lot of animosity that is felt by lots of people 21 right now is because of fear and concern about what is 22 going to happen to us. So thank you. 23 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. Are there 24 questions for this witness? 220 1 MS. WILEY: That's my brother. 2 HEARING OFFICER: State your name. 3 MR. MOORE: Lee Moore, M-O-O-R-E. Leyona, 4 do you believe that the Marion Butler family, if they 5 were here tonight, knowing how Marion Butler was, 6 would you ever look at them right in the eye and say 7 what would your dad do or your husband do in this 8 situation? What do you think Marion would say, 9 because you knew them a very long time? 10 MS. WILEY: Yes, I used to baby-sit for 11 the Butler children, and you know, Lee, I read that in 12 your letter, and you spent a lot of time going over 13 that. We would all like to say we know what Marion 14 would say, and I think we would all like to say that 15 we who knew him would say that he would oppose this. 16 But when it comes to push and shove, we all know that 17 when there are dollars and cents on the dotted line, 18 people make different decisions. But I would hope 19 that Marion would have sat down with his neighbors and 20 said this is what I would like to do, what do you 21 think about that. That's my comment to you, Brother 22 Lee. 23 HEARING OFFICER: Further questions? 24 Thank you. 221 1 Next up we have Heather McMeekan. State your 2 name, please. 3 MS. McMEEKAN: Heather McMeekan. 4 HEARING OFFICER: Hold on. 5 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 6 MS. McMEEKAN: I would like to talk about 7 people, pigs and neighbors. In particular I think we 8 can agree that everybody here likes people and 9 obviously have a shared interest in this and how this 10 turns out; that most of us like pigs and we like the 11 idea of healthy pigs. So on that maybe it is a wash. 12 But let's talk about neighbors because right 13 now many of us who live in McDonough County are 14 neighbors, and they are wanting their corporation to 15 be our neighbor. Not necessarily all of the owners 16 but their corporation. 17 We have been asked to accept that regulations 18 are going to keep us safe and to accept that the 19 Illinois EPA is going to oversee that. I wonder why, 20 then, the USEPA admonished the Illinois EPA for their 21 lax regulation of CAFO's and told them to shape up or 22 they would end up losing the ability to do so. 23 Maybe I am mischaracterizing that, but I 24 personally do not trust that the Illinois EPA has the 222 1 resources or the expertise to be able to adequately 2 protect everybody. 3 The other thing in this community and part of 4 Illinois is if you own a well, you have to test it 5 yourself. Everyone who lives around there has to pay 6 for that testing. 7 And now I want to talk a little bit about 8 neighbors. What actually makes up neighbors? 9 Neighbors care for each other. Neighbors do not take 10 not only their shared water but then their neighbors' 11 too, and that's what is being asked to be done. All 12 of these nice people are being asked to give up a 13 share of their water which is part of their common 14 wealth that belongs to us all. The water that runs 15 over the LaMoine Valley watershed feeds a giant area 16 and is teeming with a diversity of wildlife. 17 And we have a wonderful quality of life that 18 right now a company wants to buy because it is good, 19 not because it will benefit those of us who are being 20 asked to give it away. If the Illinois Department of 21 -- sorry, the Illinois EPA doesn't oversee that, well, 22 then it will be all of us who share that cost. It is 23 not right for our community to be asked to bear all of 24 the risk and receive none of the benefit. That's 223 1 truly what is happening. 2 People talk about jobs. I'm glad that some 3 people will get jobs out of this, but we can also talk 4 about green jobs and that wind farm and what else is 5 going to be brought up. My concerns are about the 6 roads and all of the children who are going to be 7 traveling on, them, the people going to and from work. 8 Lastly I will say it is very nice that people 9 want to raise healthy pigs. 10 HEARING OFFICER: Twenty seconds. 11 MS. McMEEKAN: We are already raising 12 healthy people. We'd really like to keep it that way. 13 Thank you. 14 HEARING OFFICER: Are there questions for 15 this witness? 16 MR. ANDERSON: You mentioned water and 17 free water. Are you in favor of regulating rural 18 water and rural access to water? 19 MS. McMEEKAN: I am in favor of 20 regulations that protect rural water from other people 21 who would pollute the water that runs onto other 22 people's land. 23 MR. ANDERSON: If some type of system was 24 put in place that your water, well water isn't 224 1 contaminated and is safe and there is some 2 recollection if something should happen, would you 3 support this farm? 4 MS. McMEEKAN: No, I would not. I do not 5 trust the Illinois EPA. 6 MR. ANDERSON: Water is not the issue? 7 MS. McMEEKAN: Water and air are the 8 issues. 9 MR. ANDERSON: Sorry. Outside of the EPA, 10 some system comes in place that can protect your well 11 water and there is assurances there that it doesn't 12 get contaminated, some process that solves that 13 problem for you, would you support this farm if your 14 water issue was addressed? 15 MS. McMEEKAN: I don't believe that you 16 can make that promise. 17 MR. ANDERSON: That's not a question I 18 asked you. 19 MS. McMEEKAN: No, I wouldn't support it 20 because I don't believe it is possible. 21 MR. ANDERSON: So water is not an issue if 22 there is a solution to your -- 23 MS. McMEEKAN: Water is one of the issues 24 to me. 225 1 MR. ANDERSON: If you address that. 2 MS. McMEEKAN: Livestock business, 3 Illinois livestock development -- 4 MR. ANDERSON: Earlier you mentioned 5 antibiotic resistance study in some questioning. 6 Could you share the conversation of what we discussed 7 about that? 8 MS. McMEEKAN: Yeah, I told you that I 9 would grant you that I'm willing to concede that I 10 didn't do enough of my homework on that. I am a 11 working mom. I gave up my free time to come here and 12 help my neighbors try to defend their land. 13 MR. ANDERSON: So the antibiotic issue 14 that you brought up doesn't have relevance? 15 MS. McMEEKAN: I didn't say that. I 16 said -- 17 MR. ANDERSON: Based on your study? 18 MS. McMEEKAN: I said I would investigate 19 it further, not bring it up here -- 20 MR. ANDERSON: Okay. 21 MS. McMEEKAN: -- because I didn't have 22 enough info to back it up. 23 UNIDENTIFIED: I've got a question. 24 HEARING OFFICER: Hang on just a second. 226 1 UNIDENTIFIED: I can say it out loud. 2 HEARING OFFICER: Sir, sir, he is not on 3 the stand. Questions are to be directed to the 4 witness here. 5 MS. McMEEKAN: Sorry. Nick has been very 6 nice to me, and I don't mean to be so upset. 7 MR. CALLAHAN: He is just argumentative. 8 HEARING OFFICER: Are there other 9 questions for this witness? 10 Next up we have Dana Walker. 11 MR. WALKER: Dana Walker, D-A-N-A, 12 W-A-L-K-E-R. 13 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 14 MR. WALKER: I have short oral comments to 15 make and then a two-page letter to submit as written 16 testimony also at the end. 17 I am President of Environmentally Concerned 18 Citizens. We are concerned mainly about protection of 19 our air and water. I'm also a former soil 20 conservationist with the US Department of Agriculture. 21 In the 1980's I wrote waste management plans. 22 Now, my main point of our testimony is that I 23 don't think we have enough acres set up for the 24 application of manure. The figure that was presented 227 1 was 1170, 1,170 acres, and I think in the long term it 2 will require more like three times that number, over 3 3,000 acres to avoid the saturation of the land and 4 water with phosphorus. 5 Phosphorus is the element that stays with the 6 soil usually, but when you get 300 of a soil, soil 7 test of 300 rather than common tests of 30 to 60, 8 which is plenty for the crop production, then you have 9 way too much phosphorus out there. That's the end of 10 my oral comments. 11 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Are there 12 questions for this witness? I see none. Thank you. 13 MR. WALKER: The letter, two pages we will 14 submit. 15 HEARING OFFICER: Entered into the record 16 as Exhibit #8 is a letter from Dana Walker. 17 (Exhibit #8 marked for identification 18 and admitted.) 19 HEARING OFFICER: Next up we have Anita 20 Rouen. 21 UNIDENTIFIED: She left. She put in her 22 testimony earlier. 23 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. That's right. 24 Thank you. 228 1 Alice Henry. 2 MS. HENRY: I will pass. 3 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. Alan 4 Whitman. 5 UNIDENTIFIED: He is gone. 6 HEARING OFFICER: Allen is gone. 7 Doug Groth. 8 MR. GROTH: Doug Groth, G-R-O-T-H. 9 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 10 MR. GROTH: I'm Doug Groth. I'm a partner 11 of Bill Hollis in Professional Swine Management. I'm 12 proud to be part of an organization that is trying to 13 grow and be positive in the community and strive to do 14 good work every day, seven days a week, 365 days a 15 year. 16 You have got to hear tonight several employees 17 that work at farms that work for PSM. All very good 18 employees that have been able to grow locally. Some 19 we have brought in expertise, and our goal is to 20 continue to provide service to owners of South Morgan 21 at the best quality world class service that we can. 22 So we are not going anywhere. Like Dr. 23 Hollis, myself, we live here locally. We are a part 24 of the community every day. Our kids grow up here. 229 1 Our kids drink the water, I drink the water, and we 2 are positive about our industry and the image we 3 present to the world. 4 The swine industry today is very regulated. 5 One of the things I wanted to comment on is that 6 Mr. Blevins talked about being, you know, self 7 reporting. The State of Illinois has a regulation 8 that anything over a 25 gallon release of effluent is 9 reportable to the EPA. So that's what compliance is, 10 is to report that. 11 I'm proud of our response to different actions 12 that have happened. Most -- accidents happen, but our 13 best day is when we respond to that quickly, 14 effectively and efficiently. A lot of times 15 everything is cleaned up before the EPA or somebody 16 comes to inspect things because we want to be good 17 neighbors. If accidents happen, we are going to take 18 care of them right away, and we are proud to be part 19 of the business, and our business is to serve our 20 owners. So the ten owners of South Morgan is who we 21 answer to, and that's who we work for every day for 22 South Morgan. Thank you. 23 HEARING OFFICER: Are there questions for 24 this witness? 230 1 MR. TERRELL: Don Terrell. You say you 2 want to be good neighbors. Someone said earlier why 3 didn't you come to our house and talk to us about this 4 when it was proposed. We live 7,000 feet away from 5 it. We knew nothing about it until the day before the 6 county board meeting. There is several families 7 around here in the same boat. We knew nothing. If 8 you are going to be good neighbors, you could have 9 come and told us. 10 MR. GROTH: Part of the permitting process 11 is requirement of notice of intent to construct within 12 the immediate neighbors within the setback zones. It 13 is all laid out in the management -- Livestock 14 Management Facilities Act, and that's what we go by. 15 As part of the business and working with them, 16 we work with the local farmer or farmers with the land 17 and in order to move things forward for us, we work 18 hard trying to find locations, work with people that 19 start the process. 20 So part of the process we move through is the 21 permitting process such as going through the potential 22 for a public hearing and working through issues at 23 that standpoint. 24 MR. TERRELL: It would have been nice to 231 1 hear something, you know, from someone with a little 2 authority that this was going to happen instead of it 3 just sneaking up on us like it did. 4 Would you like to have one of these in your 5 backyard? 6 MR. GROTH: I live approximately one and a 7 quarter miles from a facility. 8 MR. TERRELL: That's about what we are, 9 and I'm not looking for to it. 10 MS. LINK: Maggie Link. I think the jobs 11 that this facility, if it goes through, will bring 12 into the community is a great thing. We need it. We 13 need the jobs. 14 But my question is it is going to make -- I 15 will live a mile and a half away, and we have a farmer 16 that has a hog confinement right there. It is 17 probably going to make his business, his hog 18 confinement not as great. It may not hurt it, I don't 19 know. 20 But do you guys ever feel guilty for possibly 21 harming the other farmers' businesses around for 22 causing them to not have as good of -- 23 MR. GROTH: I do not think we will have an 24 impact on other local producers. 232 1 MS. LINK: On any farming? 2 MR. GROTH: We would have, I think, a very 3 positive impact on farmers that we work with for 4 better application which replaces petroleum-based 5 fertilizers. So it is -- we are using manure to 6 replace commercial fertilizers. It is very positive 7 for that, farmers in the area. 8 HEARING OFFICER: Mr. Hudson? 9 MR. HUDSON: In your opinion why do we 10 need these hogs when the federal government has 11 purchased upwards of approximately 6 million pounds of 12 excess pork at taxpayer expense? 13 MR. GROTH: I'm not aware of that fact. 14 HEARING OFFICER: You had a question right 15 here? 16 MS. BRANIFF: Beverly Braniff. You say 17 that accidents happen. Did any of those accidents -- 18 were any of those accidents preventable? 19 MR. GROTH: We have learned from those. I 20 can't speak to saying if they're truly all 21 preventable. If, you know, luck changes and you do 22 something very subtle you could have prevented maybe. 23 You know, if the guy mowing the lawn had been watching 24 where the mower was going, yeah, it could have been 233 1 prevented. Most of us would think you would see those 2 thing sticking out. You know they are there. 3 So yeah, there would be potential, but it is 4 -- you know, people are -- anything, whether they're 5 driving a car down Highway 94 or anything that happens 6 out there. Things do happen. We understand that. We 7 want to be able to respond to those efficiently, 8 quickly to make sure we are not having impact in the 9 area. 10 MS. MOORE: I'm wondering have you ever 11 personally dealt with stress and feeling of control of 12 your life ever? 13 MR. GROTH: Not that I know of. 14 MS. MOORE: Well, you are very lucky. 15 Thank you. 16 HEARING OFFICER: Your name is Moore? 17 MS. MOORE: Karen Moore. 18 HEARING OFFICER: Yeah, we need to get 19 moving here. Gentleman right here. Last question for 20 this witness. 21 MR. THOMPSON: Scott Thompson. I'm sure 22 you are all very nice people. I'm sorry if I have 23 been offensive in any way this evening with my 24 questions or whatever, but is it possible you might 234 1 consider a different site for this operation that's 2 more environmentally responsible as far as the effects 3 on the ecosystem, drainage to the LaMoine River? 4 Perhaps you could find an area with less houses. 5 Is your investment group open to that idea? 6 MR. GROTH: Professional Swine Management 7 is looking for sites. If you have a site, I'd be glad 8 to look at it and show us that. That's how we get 9 sites that have come to us. We work with different 10 areas and different ideas. So we will always look at 11 some alternatives. 12 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. Next up we 13 have Laura Greiner. 14 MS. GREINER: Laura Greiner, 15 G-R-E-I-N-E-R. 16 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 17 MS. GREINER: Hello. My name is Laura 18 Greiner. I work for Carthage Veterinary Service and a 19 daughter company called Innovative Swine Solutions. I 20 have been with the company now for six years. I'm a 21 PhD nutritionist. I grew up in the State of Illinois. 22 My family was active in the swine industry as a youth. 23 Today my husband and I are both employed by the swine 24 industry, and we raise our three children in Carthage, 235 1 Illinois. We are also within a couple mile radius of 2 the farm that is managed by Professional Swine 3 Management. 4 My daily activities with CVS includes working 5 with our producers, industry leaders and pigs. Every 6 day I'm challenged with the task of evaluating new 7 products and processes to improve the efficiency of 8 the pigs, the health, the production and animal 9 well-being. I'm proud to be a part of an industry 10 that strives to improve efficiencies and reduce 11 environmental impact. 12 Over the years nutritionists have been 13 involved in working with companies on cutting edge 14 technology. One such product is phytase. It is a 15 natural product, and it improves the absorption of 16 phosphorus in the pigs' diet and reduces the amount 17 being removed into the waste material. 18 In addition some of the work I have done in 19 the last few years has focused on utilizing byproducts 20 from the ethanol industry to be used in pigs that we 21 cannot use in the human food consumption chain. I 22 also have colleagues of mine that have worked in 23 learning how to feed byproducts from the human food 24 market such as bakery goods or cereal fines or maybe 236 1 your granola this morning didn't look very good and 2 they pass it onto something else. Our pigs will 3 utilize that product. This is a way for us to utilize 4 otherwise discarded nutrients. 5 Today I'm evaluating products to improve 6 digestibility in both sows and grow-finished pigs by 7 reducing waste material. The products also help 8 reduce odor emission. Nutritionists also continue to 9 evaluate nutrient needs of the pig to reduce 10 additional waste product. This is done through things 11 such as phase feeding so that we can tailor the diet 12 to match more closely what the pig requires today. 13 With the growing population and limited 14 resources, swine producers are being asked to continue 15 to provide a low cost product that can nourish our 16 society. Today's pig can provide a serving for around 17 371 people. In addition, the material from the pig 18 facility can provide an economic alternative to 19 anhydrous ammonia for local crop producers. 20 I am excited about the opportunity of South 21 Morgan to provide swine producers the ability to 22 provide for their families and for others. I'm also 23 excited that South Morgan will provide jobs to 24 McDonough County. I'm proud to be a part of the swine 237 1 industry. It takes an active role in participating 2 with their community. 3 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. Are there 4 questions for this witness? 5 MS. MARTIN: Kathy Martin. As a 6 nutritionist, would you recommend using DDGS in their 7 diet or not? 8 MS. GREINER: We do look at using DDGS if 9 it is an economic alternative. 10 MS. MARTIN: How would that go to 11 reducing odor from the facility? 12 MS. GREINER: It does not necessarily 13 reduce odor, but what it does is allow for us to use 14 products that nobody else can use. So either fill the 15 landfills or we need to find an alternative for it. 16 MS. MARTIN: So as far as the odor 17 management plan, would you say this facility needs to 18 not utilize dried distilled grains? 19 MS. GREINER: We can use dried distilled 20 grains and incorporate other products into diet such 21 as Yucca products or we can add pit additives to help 22 reduce sulphur that I believe you are concerned about. 23 MS. MARTIN: But are they going to do it 24 in this facility? 238 1 MS. GREINER: That is not my jurisdiction 2 to decide. 3 HEARING OFFICER: Way in the back. 4 MR. MOORE: Lee Moore. My question is for 5 the other guy before you. I think you can probably 6 answer this. I worked on three hog farms in college 7 and one of them a lot of you gentlemen probably know, 8 John Kellog around Yorkville, Illinois who is a 9 big-time hog producer. In college I learned hogs 10 catch every disease possible. It just seems like he 11 had it terrible. 12 Being a hog confinement about a mile and a 13 half, roundabouts mile and a half up the road, it's 14 been my experience back then is that you want to try 15 and stay away as far as you can from other hogs. 16 HEARING OFFICER: Do you have a question? 17 MR. MOORE: Why -- is that really kind of 18 too close, I mean especially from the north with the 19 wind that we receive up in that area? 20 MS. GREINER: What I am -- I guess I 21 missing the question. 22 MR. MOORE: Is there any concerns from, 23 you know, another hog confinement about a mile and a 24 half away from the north of wind blowing any disease, 239 1 viruses, whatever you have? 2 MS. GREINER: I think there is always the 3 concern. You can have it from a passing truck 4 transporting pigs to market. So I don't believe the 5 risk is any greater per se on most of the pathogens 6 that you are talking about. Haemophilus particularly 7 is not something that we can carry that far away. So 8 I feel like it is not any greater risk to be a mile 9 and a half up the road than if I had a market truck 10 come down my lane today, too. 11 HEARING OFFICER: Ms. Hudson? 12 MS. HUDSON: Yes. 13 HEARING OFFICER: Hang on just a second. 14 MS. HUDSON: My question is what is the 15 recommend distance for companies to locate their hog 16 facilities? What is the separation distance? Is it 17 about two miles? 18 MS. GREINER: That's a question you will 19 have -- 20 HEARING OFFICER: Turned around, use the 21 microphone. 22 MS. GREINER: That is a question you will 23 have to ask the veterinarians. I'm not a 24 veterinarian. 240 1 MS. HUDSON: Okay. I wish it was that for 2 humans, but thank you. 3 HEARING OFFICER: Further questions? 4 Thank you very much. 5 Next up is Julie Totten. 6 MS. TOTTEN: Julie Totten, T-O-T-T-E-N. 7 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 8 MS. TOTTEN: My name is Julie Totten. I 9 work for Professional Swine Management. I have been 10 employed there for three years. I'm very proud to be 11 an employee of Professional Swine Management. I'm 12 proud to call those people over there my colleagues. 13 I would like to read as part of my testimony a 14 letter that David Walker, who is the chair of the 15 Hancock County Board, asked that we bring today. To 16 the McDonough County Board who unfortunately I don't 17 think is here anymore -- 18 UNIDENTIFIED: Yes, we are. 19 MS. TOTTEN: I will try to face you. 20 David dated it yesterday. In regard to the proposed 21 hog facility near Blandinsville, my experience with 22 units operated by Professional Swine Management is 23 very positive. The management team has gone the extra 24 mile to do things right. They do their very best to 241 1 keep the smell down, and they are extremely proactive 2 at being disease. PSM has nine units in Hancock 3 County. To my knowledge there have been very few 4 problems. 5 In these tough economic times we will also 6 have to consider the ramifications of property taxes. 7 The taxes on the farm ground are in the area of $30 8 per acre. After completion of this facility, the 9 property taxes will be 91,600, of which the school 10 district will get approximately 55,000. All of our 11 local school districts and other taxing bodies are 12 struggling to keep their budgets balanced. This 13 facility provides a shot in the arm of desperately 14 needed revenues. 15 When units get built, and I believe me they 16 will be built, having PSM as the manager provides the 17 best possible outcome. 18 I can tell you we take our business very 19 seriously. We take it very seriously that we can 20 provide 16 to 18 more jobs than you have in the county 21 today. We take the roads seriously. We take 22 production seriously. We take the environment very 23 seriously. 24 I respect all of the attention we have 242 1 received this evening. I appreciate everyone who has 2 spoken tonight. I feel that tonight has gone very 3 well in comparison to other hearings that I have 4 attended. I would just like to thank the department 5 for allowing us to speak. Thank you. 6 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. Are there 7 questions for this witness? Just a couple quick ones. 8 MS. DAVIS: Christie Davis. I appreciate 9 all the employees' love of their company. 10 Could you possibly tell me why Shamrock Acres 11 dumped PSM last minute before the hearing we attended 12 earlier this year because of your bad track record 13 with Lisa Madigan and the Attorney General and why we 14 should believe that with this new investor group and 15 their $11 million, your track record as a management 16 group is going to be any better? 17 MS. TOTTEN: I don't know why they -- no, 18 I'm sorry. I can't answer your question. I do know 19 they never once said to me that it had anything to do 20 with Lisa Madigan or any allegations with the EPA. 21 MS. DAVIS: That's what they told at the 22 hearing, that they dumped it so that they would have a 23 better chance in their application. 24 HEARING OFFICER: We need to direct 243 1 questions to this facility. 2 MS. TOTTEN: I'm not aware that's what 3 they said at that hearing, and the department said we 4 are not to talk about that. 5 HEARING OFFICER: No, we just need to keep 6 the questions directed to this facility. 7 Are there other questions? Over here. 8 MS. TWADDLE: Laura Twaddle. Are you 9 familiar with the taxing in Hancock County? 10 MS. TOTTEN: A little bit. 11 MS. TWADDLE: Have any of the buildings 12 that PSM manages applied for the state abatement? 13 MS. TOTTEN: I honestly can't answer 14 that, but I know there are people here who can, but I 15 don't think they will be able to speak due to time 16 constraints. 17 MS. TWADDLE: I would be interested in 18 knowing who that person would be. 19 MS. TOTTEN: Love to have that 20 conversation separately. 21 MS. TWADDLE: You have no name you can 22 give us tonight who would know if a tax abatement has 23 been applied for? Who would you refer me to? 24 MS. TOTTEN: Nick. 244 1 MS. TWADDLE: Your last name, Nick? 2 MR. ANDERSON: Nick Anderson. 3 MS. TWADDLE: Your position? 4 MR. ANDERSON: I'm going to speak so you 5 can ask me. 6 HEARING OFFICER: You can talk to 7 Mr. Anderson afterward. We need to move along here. 8 One final question. 9 MS. MARTIN: Kathy Martin. With respect 10 to your controlling disease, how do you guys control 11 pathogens in the manure before it is land applied? 12 MS. TOTTEN: I'm not a veterinarian. I 13 cannot answer that. I'm sorry. I work in the office. 14 MS. MARTIN: Oh, you work in the office; 15 you don't work on a hog farm? 16 MS. TOTTEN: No, ma'am. 17 MS. MARTIN: Okay. Sorry. 18 HEARING OFFICER: All right. Thank you 19 very much. Next up we have Gary Donley. State your 20 name and spell it. 21 MR. DONLEY: My name is Gary Donley, 22 D-O-N-L-E-Y. 23 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 24 MR. DONLEY: Of the many things that we 245 1 have talked about this evening, at least you can say 2 they're change. Some would say they're progress, 3 others may not. So let's just leave it that things do 4 change. Whether it is producing pigs for producers 5 scattered throughout the Midwest or pig production 6 like it used to be in Blandinsville and the picture 7 that Dr. Hollis showed, things do change. Things 8 evolve. This is an evolution of some of those things 9 that change, and we can all step off of that boat and 10 say we're going to throw the cell phone away or unplug 11 the wide screen TV and many other things that have 12 changed and caused change throughout the Midwest and 13 throughout this country. 14 I would also want to touch on it's been 15 mentioned the 16 to 18 jobs that this facility would 16 create. That's just a baseline for what it would be. 17 There is many other support jobs that would come along 18 with this from vendors that supply the business, 19 vendors who support from the utility companies, 20 electric companies, feed companies. There is a 21 significant multiplier effect from that. 22 Real estate taxes, we have touched on that. 23 That can't be, I don't think, overlooked or denied. 24 Your question about abatements is a relevant one, but 246 1 I think we can stand behind the $91,000 number that 2 was displayed and has been talked about already this 3 evening. That's the end of my comments. 4 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. Ms. Hudson? 5 MS. HUDSON: Very quickly I have a 6 question. Do you know about the research from 7 Illinois State University? They studied about 1250 8 hog farms across the State of Illinois and found a 9 2.5% population loss in that -- in these areas where 10 large hog farms were located and negative economic 11 receipts by Miguel Gomez. We can supply that to you. 12 MR. DONLEY: No, I'm not familiar with 13 that. 14 MS. HUDSON: Okay. Thank you. 15 HEARING OFFICER: One final, Ms. Moore. 16 MS. MOORE: You know me by name now. 17 Karen Moore. You say that your supplies, your feed 18 supplies and whatever else you will need, will you be 19 buying them locally? 20 MR. DONLEY: Yes. 21 MS. MOORE: And where? May I ask where? 22 MR. DONLEY: As has been previously 23 discussed, the feed supplier is a feed mill in 24 Carthage. 247 1 MS. MOORE: Okay. So that is not a 2 McDonough County supplier? 3 MR. DONLEY: His feed mill facility, it 4 is not in McDonough County. He does supply originally 5 corn from the greater local area which would include 6 McDonough County for corn and bean meal. 7 MS. MOORE: Will your building supplies 8 and the person building your building be from this 9 area? 10 MR. DONLEY: All those supplies and 11 contractors have not been lined up. Obviously that 12 would be premature at this point. 13 MS. MOORE: Are they normally? 14 MR. DONLEY: We do try to use local 15 vendors where we can for the positions that we -- 16 construction jobs that we would have. 17 MS. MOORE: You mentioned how many jobs 18 would be on site? 19 MR. DONLEY: Sixteen to eighteen full-time 20 employees. 21 MS. MOORE: They will be on a South Morgan 22 Acres site -- 23 MR. DONLEY: Every day. 24 MS. MOORE: -- during their hours from six 248 1 to whatever? 2 MR. DONLEY: Yes. 3 MS. MOORE: Is that normal? 4 MR. DONLEY: I'm not sure which part. 5 MS. MOORE: Is that normal that that many 6 people would be on site every day? 7 MR. DONLEY: For a farm of this size, yes, 8 that's normal. 9 MS. MOORE: Okay. Thank you. 10 HEARING OFFICER: All right. Thank you 11 very much. We need to move on here. Next up is Day 12 or Dell Hunt from Blandinsville? Mr. Hunt from 13 Blandinsville. Don't see him. Or I'm presuming it is 14 Mr. Maybe it isn't. 15 Monty Mason. 16 MR. MASON: Monty Mason, M-A-S-O-N. 17 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 18 HEARING OFFICER: Step up just a little 19 bit. 20 MR. MASON: My name is Monty Mason. I 21 live in Blandinsville. I'm in favor of South Morgan 22 Acres because of the 16 to 18 jobs that it will create 23 and revenue it will bring to the county. I'm also in 24 favor of it because I will option to purchase manure 249 1 to apply on land that I own and rent within a mile and 2 a half of the project. 3 I do not believe odor will be an issue of 4 South Morgan Acres because of the experience I have 5 had with the 3600 sow operation three miles south of 6 Tennessee known as Pinnacle. I own land next to 7 Pinnacle. Pinnacle sits 2000 feet south of 600th 8 Road, and I rarely ever smell odor when I am in the 9 area. If you didn't see the buildings from 600th 10 Road, you wouldn't know they were there from driving 11 by. 12 And lastly, for production agriculture in the 13 United States of America, I don't want my grandkids to 14 some day have to rely on another country for their 15 meat. 16 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you very much. We 17 are going to dispense with questions with this 18 witness. We have to be out of this building by 19 midnight. So that means everything cleaned up and 20 everybody out by midnight. That's about 18 minutes. 21 So next up we have four more people plus we have to 22 wrap things up here. So thank you very much. 23 Next we have Karen Hudson. 24 MS. HUDSON: My name is Karen Hudson, 250 1 K-A-R-E-N, H-U-D S-O-N. 2 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 3 HEARING OFFICER: Move the microphone down 4 a little bit. 5 MS. HUDSON: I'm from Illinois Citizens 6 for Clean Air and Water. We represent about 30 7 counties across the State of Illinois. Most of these 8 people are either opposing new hog facilities or 9 already live next to facilities and are having 10 problems living next to these facilities. 11 I agree that these people are doing the best 12 that they can. I think it is too many animals in one 13 place at one time. There will always be human error. 14 There not deliberately spilling. This is always going 15 to happen when you have too many hogs in one place at 16 one time and not enough land to absorb the waste. 17 In my community, our neighbor and friend had a 18 large scale sow operation come in years ago, and they 19 tried to sell their home and could not sell it. They 20 ended up selling it to the company that put up the hog 21 facility, and the workers lived in there. So that's 22 the story from our side of the county or Illinois. 23 I know the kitty litter study was discussed. 24 That's been a very tossed around study for the last 251 1 couple of years done by Iowa State University. I 2 don't know if it is peer reviewed yet, but they -- I 3 can choose in my home not to have a litter box because 4 I don't want to have ammonia in my house and cats. I 5 can choose not to smoke. I can't choose not to have a 6 CAFO located a quarter of a mile from my farm, and 7 that's the truth. 8 It has nothing to do with kitty litter, has 9 nothing to do with cigarette smoke. Closing doors 10 does not stop it. Research shows that they have found 11 antibiotic resistant pathogens downwind from swine 12 confinements. I can provide citations for that. 13 The University of Iowa, we work with the 14 School of Public Health there, and they do research a 15 lot of the workers' health. There is a lot of 16 problems, and they try to minimize those as best as 17 possible. They are doing a pretty good job doing 18 that. The problem is neighbors are starting to show 19 the same symptoms that the workers have across the 20 country and everywhere else. 21 I work with Johns Hopkins School of Public 22 Health. We don't give out false information. 23 Everything -- everytime someone at Illinois comes to 24 me, I provide peer reviewed research for them. We 252 1 have a gateway site at the Center for Livable Future. 2 You can go to that site and find all research on 3 public health and industrial animal operations. We 4 are not making this research up. It is all peer 5 reviewed, and people are just concerned about their 6 health. That's the biggest concern we've got, and 7 quality of life. 8 One night in December a couple years ago the 9 Illinois EPA or federal EPA called me and said is this 10 Families Against Rural Messes -- 11 HEARING OFFICER: Twenty seconds. 12 MS. HUDSON: Okay. They said where are 13 all the hog facilities in Illinois. I said, I have no 14 idea. You are the federal EPA. I thought that you 15 knew. We then realized there was no inventory. We 16 found after researching that there was about 30% 17 inventory for the largest hog farms in the State of 18 Illinois. So they're not being regulated. We also 19 found they went years, some went years without being 20 inspected. 21 HEARING OFFICER: Need to wrap it up, Ms. 22 Hudson. 23 MS. HUDSON: Yes. I'm turning in tonight, 24 we talked about these earlier. These are allegations 253 1 relating to design. They are quotations from the 2 People of the State of Illinois, Complainant versus 3 Professional Swine Management and several different 4 farms, Wild Cat, Eagle Point, Timberline, North Fork 5 Pork, High Power Pork, Hilltop View, Prairie State, 6 Little Timber, LLC. These all included, kind of a 7 synopsis of the legal things going on. 8 HEARING OFFICER: Okay. Thank you. 9 Entered into the record as Exhibit #9 is information 10 from Ms. Hudson. 11 (Exhibit #9 marked for identification 12 and admitted.) 13 HEARING OFFICER: Next up is Kathy Martin. 14 UNIDENTIFIED: No questions? 15 HEARING OFFICER: We don't have time. 16 MS. MARTIN: My name is Kathy Martin, 17 K-A-T-H-Y, M-A-R-T-I-N. I'm a professional engineer 18 in the State of Oklahoma. 19 HEARING OFFICER: Want to raise your hand, 20 please. 21 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 22 MS. MARTIN: Okay. With respect to the 23 engineer drawings that we have not been able to see 24 yet, I wanted to talk about a few things. Number one, 254 1 Warren, could you make sure that we have a design for 2 the composting facility including all calculations on 3 their acute and chronic mortalities. If they choose 4 to use that as their disposal mechanism? That 5 includes stillbirths. Engineering drawings should 6 have not only piping between the barns if it is going 7 to be just like Shamrock, but the location above the 8 clean-out pipes and any other mechanisms like 9 filtering or anything else used to protect the pipe 10 between the barns to prevent bursting because they get 11 clogged up. 12 And number four, on the odor management plan, 13 if they can provide the percent reduction in 14 asphyxiates, which are the methane and ammonia, versus 15 the odiferous pollutants which would be butyric and 16 propionic acids, and number five, I think that also 17 the public needs to have access to the soil borings 18 report so that we can do a third party review to make 19 sure that aquifer materials, indeed, are not found. 20 Thank you. 21 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you. Next up is 22 Nick Anderson. 23 MR. ANDERSON: Nick Anderson, 24 A-N-D-E-R-S-O-N. 255 1 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 2 MR. ANDERSON: My name is Nick Anderson. 3 I'm with the Illinois Livestock Development Group, I'm 4 with the Illinois Corn, Soy, Pork, Beef, Dairy Farm 5 Bureau. We see in our organization that livestock is 6 important to Illinois' economy and our industry. I 7 everybody here with a farming background realizes 8 those groups together need to support agriculture and 9 animal agriculture. 10 Unfortunately you can't ask me questions and 11 maybe it is my luck or your unluck to do that, but I 12 think if you talk about lack of regulation, Karen 13 pointed it out, the last speaker did. EPA doesn't do 14 their job. However, they can condemn PSM for having 15 violations that EPA is enforcing and making them 16 follow the rules that they have to address if they are 17 going to continue to operate. 18 SO EPA is either good for them or bad for them 19 depending on how they talk about that issue. It is 20 really disingenuous to condemn the EPA and their 21 staff, yet PSM is following regulations coming into 22 compliance with incidences that happen sometimes. 23 Their goal is not to have those. They want good 24 running farms, and they are going to take measures to 256 1 do that. Whether you believe that or not, that's why 2 EPA is there, to enforce those types of things. 3 Rock talked about 6 million pounds of pork 4 that the government buys, what is the need for that. 5 There are hungry people in the world and even in the 6 United States that when the government purchases 7 products, it goes to that issue. We raise 9 billion 8 pounds of pork in Illinois, so it is a very small 9 portion, but that product that Rock quoted that why 10 does the government do that, we have people that can't 11 feed themselves. So those issues need to be 12 addressed. 13 I guess lastly -- and we can further the 14 conversation out in the hall about this abatement 15 issue, taxes issues -- the taxes that they put up on 16 the board are real taxes off of other farms that they 17 pay every year. The Illinois EPA does have an 18 abatement program for waste storage facilities. If 19 you go to Illinois EPA and look up that page, there is 20 an application process that you have to submit and 21 qualify for the waste portion of your facility. 22 You can't do the above structure. So that taxable 23 rate the above structure has a value of it, cement has 24 a value of it, and they give you an abatement on the 257 1 manure storage portion of it. You have to fill out 2 that application, and they have to approve that, and 3 that goes to the county and the township for that 4 abatement. It cannot be higher than 50% because you 5 have to take into effect the above ground, any 6 assessment, outside storage, whatever that might be, 7 feed bins. All those things get assessed. So the 8 waste facility gets abatement on it. That can't be 9 over 50% because that -- it doesn't exceed the cost of 10 the building. 11 HEARING OFFICER: Ten seconds. 12 MR. ANDERSON: Now, the EPA is also going 13 to evaluate that on value, so typically those numbers 14 for abatement are in the 30 to 40% range on total 15 project. I will visit with you out in the hall. 16 HEARING OFFICER: No, you will visit 17 outside. Keep in mind we have to be out of here in 18 about eight minutes. So next up we have Joel Gruver. 19 MR. GRUVER: Joel Gruver, G-R-U-V-E-R. 20 (Whereupon the speaker was duly sworn.) 21 MR. GRUVER: There are a lot people in 22 here who are pro agriculture, and I am one of them. I 23 support the production of livestock, I support the 24 production of grain in the state, and I think that 258 1 manure has a very valuable role to play in grain 2 production. But it concerns me when I hear numbers 3 such as 970 acres as being appropriate acreage to 4 receive the manure from a facility that's going to 5 produce over 6 million acres of manure. 6 There are a lot of different ways you can 7 calculate manure value. I do this every day. I teach 8 my students how to do it at WIU. You can multiply 25 9 pounds of P205 per thousand gallons times 6 million. 10 That's a typical value, 25 pounds per thousand. It 11 could be 20, it could be 30, but 25 is typical. You 12 multiply it by the 6 million, and you get 150,000 13 pounds of P205. 14 We know, all the farmers in here know that 15 P205 is taken up by corn in fairly similar amount per 16 bushel. We are talking about maybe .37, .38 pounds 17 per bushel. If you multiply it by 175 bushels per 18 acre, we are talking about around 70 pounds of P205 19 would be needed to grow 175 bushels. If you divide 20 150,000 pounds of P205 by 70, you get a number that's 21 over 2000. The math is very simple. I am not really 22 sure why, in this situation and in the last hearing I 23 went to, I heard numbers which simply are not 24 agronomically logical. 259 1 I want to see stewardship on the farms of 2 Illinois, and I want to proper engineering, proper 3 agronomics that underlies that stewardship. I think 4 this facility needs to find people that can provide 5 you with the proper agronomic information if you want 6 to proceed and take good care of our land. Thank you. 7 HEARING OFFICER: Thank you very much. 8 That concludes the oral testimony phase. 9 Is there any further written testimony anyone 10 would like to present? 11 Entered into the record as Exhibit #10 is 12 adverse health effects of hog production. 13 (Exhibit #10 marked for 14 identification and admitted.) 15 HEARING OFFICER: Entered into the record 16 as Exhibit #11 is five letters from Moore Brothers 17 Corporation. Thank you. 18 (Exhibit #11 marked for 19 identification and admitted.) 20 HEARING OFFICER: Entered into the record 21 as Exhibit #12 is a letter to the McDonough County 22 Board, Department of Agriculture from Beverly Braniff 23 and Warren Wilson. 24 260 1 (Exhibit #12 marked for 2 identification.) 3 HEARING OFFICER: Entered into the record 4 as Exhibit #13 is a, a fact sheet, research shows 5 little cause for public health concern. Thank you. 6 (Exhibit #13 marked for 7 identification and admitted.) 8 HEARING OFFICER: Entered into the record 9 as Exhibit #14 is oral testimony sign-in sheet and 10 entered into the record as Exhibit #15 is the 11 attendance sign-in sheet. 12 (Exhibits 14 and 15 marked for 13 identification and admitted.) 14 HEARING OFFICER: Are there any closing 15 comments from the facility? We will pass on that. 16 Thank you very much for your attendance 17 here tonight. The meeting is closed. 18 (Meeting concluded at 12:00 a.m.) 19 20 21 22 23 24 261 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 2 3 I, JENNIFER L. CROWE, a Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter and Notary Public within and for the State of 5 Illinois, do hereby certify that the foregoing 6 proceeding was taken by me to the best of my ability 7 and thereafter reduced to typewriting under my 8 direction; that I am neither counsel for, related to, 9 nor employed by any of the parties to the action in 10 which this deposition was taken, and further that I am 11 not a relative or employee of any attorney or counsel 12 employed by the parties thereto, nor financially or 13 otherwise interested in the outcome of the action. 14 15 16 _________________________ 17 Notary Public in and for 18 The State of Illinois 19 20 21 22 23 24