1 1 DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE 2 STATE OF ILLINOIS 3 4 IN RE: 5 GRAND TOWER FARMS, LLC 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 PUBLIC INFORMATIONAL MEETING 16 REQUESTED BY THE SCHUYLER COUNTY BOARD 17 MAY 3, 2012 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2 1 I N D E X 2 COMMENTS PAGE 3 Introduction, Hearing Officer Frank 5 4 Warren Goetsch 9 5 William Hollis 16 6 Chris West 35 7 Q&A SESSION 54 8 ORAL TESTIMONY 9 Gary Donley 91 10 Jeff White 94 11 Dan Cole 95 12 Adam Annegers 96 13 Ed Harte 97 14 Pat Sullivan 100 15 David Schneider 102 16 EXHIBITS 17 Exhibit 1 Notice of Intent to Construct 14 18 Exhibit 2 Department PowerPoint 15 19 Exhibit 3 Facility PowerPoint 53 20 Exhibit 4 Oral testimony sign-in sheet 111 21 Exhibit 5 Attendance sign-in sheet 111 22 Exhibit 6 Folder from Ms. Wilson 112 23 Exhibit 7 Statement from Dr. Greiner 112 24 Exhibit 8 Information from Mr. Schneider 112 3 1 DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE 2 STATE OF ILLINOIS 3 4 IN RE: 5 GRAND TOWER FARMS, LLC 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 PUBLIC INFORMATIONAL MEETING held, on the 3rd day 16 of May, 2012, between the hours of 6:00 P.M. and 8:40 17 P.M. of that day, at Schuyler County Courthouse, 120 18 South Congress, Rushville, Illinois 62681, before 19 Robin A. Enstrom, a Registered Professional Reporter, 20 Certified Shorthand Reporter, and a Notary Public 21 within and for the State of Illinois. 22 23 24 4 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE: 4 Mr. Scott Frank, Hearing Officer 5 Mr. Warren D. Goetsch, Chief, Bureau of 6 Environmental Programs 7 Mr. Brad A. Beaver, Manager, Bureau of 8 Environmental Programs 9 10 GRAND TOWER FARMS, LLC: 11 Dr. William Hollis, Professional Swine 12 Management 13 Mr. Chris J. West, President, Frank & 14 West Engineers 15 16 Court Reporter: 17 Robin A. Enstrom, RPR, CSR 18 Illinois CSR #084-002046 19 Midwest Litigation Services 20 15 S. Old State Capitol Plaza 21 Springfield, Illinois 62701 22 217.522.2211 23 800.280.3376 24 5 1 (Meeting began at 6:01 P.M.) 2 3 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: We'll go ahead and 4 get started here. 5 Good evening. On behalf of Bob Flider, 6 acting director of the Illinois Department of 7 Agriculture, we thank you very much for the invitation 8 to come to Schuyler County today. 9 My name is Scott Frank. I'm with the 10 Illinois Department of Agriculture, and I'll be 11 serving as the hearing officer for tonight's public 12 informational meeting. Also with me on behalf of the 13 Department of Agriculture are Warren Goetsch, bureau 14 chief of the Bureau of Environmental Programs, and 15 Brad Beaver behind me, who is the manager of the 16 bureau's livestock program. 17 This meeting is being conducted pursuant 18 to Section 12 of the Livestock Management Facilities 19 Act. The informational meeting is being held at the 20 request of the Schuyler County Board, and it's to 21 afford members of the public an opportunity to ask 22 questions and present oral and written testimony 23 regarding the proposed construction of a 3,501 animal 24 unit swine breeding, gestation, farrowing, and nursery 6 1 complex owned by Grand Tower Farms, LLC. 2 My task this evening is to ensure that 3 this meeting is conducted in an orderly fashion and to 4 ensure that all comments and testimony received 5 tonight are entered into the record. 6 Tonight's meeting is being transcribed and 7 the transcript of the meeting will be sent to the 8 Schuyler County Board as well as used by the 9 Department of Agriculture in making its determination 10 regarding the proposed construction of this facility. 11 In order to ensure that we have an orderly 12 process, I will quickly explain how the meeting will 13 proceed this evening. First, following my comments, 14 Warren Goetsch will provide an overview of the 15 provisions of the Livestock Management Facilities Act 16 as it relates to this particular project, specifically 17 outlining the current status of the project and how 18 the process will proceed following this meeting. 19 Following Mr. Goetsch, representatives of 20 the proposed construction project will be given an 21 opportunity to describe the project and how they 22 believe it meets the siting criteria of the Livestock 23 Management Facilities Act. 24 After their presentation, I will open the 7 1 meeting to questions. Anyone wishing to ask questions 2 of the facility representatives or the Department will 3 be given an opportunity to do so. During the 4 question-and-answer session, I will ask that you state 5 your name and spell your last name for the court 6 reporter. You then may ask your question. Depending 7 upon the number of people who wish to testify in the 8 oral testimony phase of the meeting, which is right 9 after the question phase, there may be a time limit 10 placed on this questioning phase. 11 Following the question-and-answer session, 12 I will ask for oral testimony from the public. 13 Sign-in sheets were placed in the back of the room -- 14 actually on the side of the room -- as you came in: 15 one sheet for attendance and a second sheet for 16 testimony. People who wish to provide comments during 17 this oral testimony phase are asked to sign the oral 18 testimony sheet. People providing oral comments will 19 be sworn in and will be subject to questioning from 20 the public. At that time each person will be given 21 three to five minutes to provide his or her comments. 22 Legal counsel speaking on behalf of multiple clients 23 will be given six to ten minutes to provide comment 24 and will be asked to state the names of those persons 8 1 on whose behalf he or she is speaking. Depending upon 2 the number of individuals wishing to provide comment, 3 the aforementioned time limits may need to be adjusted 4 to ensure the meeting ends at a reasonable time. 5 Following the oral testimony, I will ask 6 for written testimony. Written testimony will be 7 accepted in paper form and will be entered into the 8 record for this proceeding. 9 The meeting will then conclude with 10 closing comments from the facility and the Department 11 of Agriculture. 12 So to summarize the procedure tonight, we 13 will have comments from the Department, comments from 14 the facility, questions directed to the Department and 15 the facility, oral testimony from the public, written 16 testimony, and then closing comments. 17 Again, we thank you very much for your 18 hospitality in inviting us here tonight to consider 19 the proposed construction of the Grand Tower Farms, 20 LLC, swine facility. Please remember to confine your 21 comments and questions to that subject as we continue. 22 I will now turn the proceedings over to 23 Warren Goetsch for remarks from the Illinois 24 Department of Agriculture. 9 1 MR. GOETSCH: Good evening. My name is 2 Warren Goetsch. I currently serve as the bureau chief 3 of environmental programs for the Illinois Department 4 of Agriculture. One of our responsibilities at the 5 Department is the administration of various provisions 6 of the Livestock Management Facilities Act. 7 On behalf of the Department, let me 8 welcome you to this public informational meeting. 9 Before we hear from the proposed facility's 10 representatives, I'd like to say a few words regarding 11 the applicable provisions of the Livestock Management 12 Facilities Act and the current status of the proposed 13 project. 14 The Livestock Management Facilities Act 15 was originally passed and became law on May 21st of 16 1996. Since that time the Act has been amended three 17 times: first, during the General Assembly's 1997 fall 18 veto session; second, during the General Assembly's 19 1999 spring session; and most recently during the 2007 20 spring session. 21 The Act can be generally described as 22 covering five major areas, those being facility design 23 standards, waste management planning requirements, 24 facility operator training and testing, anaerobic 10 1 lagoon financial responsibility demonstration, and 2 facility setback requirements. 3 Each of these provisions impacts various 4 types of facilities in different ways depending upon 5 their size, expressed in animal units, and whether the 6 proposed facility is considered as a new facility, a 7 modified facility, or the expansion of an existing 8 site. The Livestock Management Facilities Act's 9 provisions are quite complicated, and specific 10 facility designs and situations certainly can differ. 11 It is, however, the Department's intention to always 12 fairly and equitably apply these requirements to the 13 livestock industry in this state. 14 Now, regarding the current status of this 15 project, the Department received a formal notice of 16 intent to construct application for the proposed 17 construction of a swine facility on February 22, 2012. 18 The proposed project is to consist of the construction 19 of four buildings: one farrowing building, measuring 20 172 feet by 520 feet, with a two-foot-deep 21 underbuilding livestock waste handling facility; one 22 breeding and gestation building, measuring 154 feet by 23 648 feet, with a ten-foot-deep underbuilding livestock 24 waste handling facility; one guilt developer building, 11 1 measuring 81 feet by 280 feet, with a ten-feet-deep 2 building -- excuse me -- ten-foot-deep underbuilding 3 livestock waste handling structure; and one 4 isolation/nursery building, measuring 63 feet by 97 5 feet, with an eight-foot underbuilding livestock waste 6 handling structure. 7 The project is proposed to be located 8 approximately 5.7 miles southwest of Camden, Illinois, 9 in southwestern Schuyler County. The application was 10 submitted by Frank and West Environmental Engineers, 11 Incorporated, on behalf of Grand Tower Farms, LLC. 12 The maximum design capacity of the proposed facility 13 is 3,500.78 animal units or 8,000 head of swine 14 greater than 55 pounds and 10,026 head less than 55 15 pounds. 16 As I mentioned earlier, the Department 17 received the notice of intent to construct application 18 on February 22, 2012, and then reviewed it for 19 compliance with the applicable provisions of the Act. 20 On March 13th, the Department determined that the 21 notice was complete, forwarding a copy of the 22 completed application to the Schuyler County Board and 23 then caused notice of that application to be published 24 in the appropriate newspaper. 12 1 The design capacity of the proposed 2 facility requires compliance with a residential 3 setback distance of not less than 1,760 feet and a 4 populated area setback distance of not less than 3,520 5 feet. 6 On April 13th, the Department received 7 notice from the Schuyler County Board requesting that 8 a public informational meeting be scheduled regarding 9 the proposal. After further consultation with the 10 County Board, the Department scheduled this meeting 11 and caused notice of the meeting to be published in 12 the appropriate newspapers. 13 An additional requirement of the Livestock 14 Management Facilities Act deals with the design and 15 construction plans of a livestock waste handling 16 facility. At this time the Department has not 17 received a formal submittal of detailed engineering 18 design plans and specifications for the proposed 19 project's underbuilding livestock waste handling 20 facilities. Upon receipt of those, the Department 21 will make a detailed review of the plans and determine 22 compliance with the statutory requirements. 23 We are here this evening to receive 24 testimony regarding the proposed livestock management 13 1 facility's compliance with eight siting criteria as 2 defined in Section 12, paragraph (d), of the Livestock 3 Management Facilities Act. In general, information 4 regarding the following would be appropriate for this 5 evening's meeting: waste management plans, potential 6 impact of the facility on the surrounding area's 7 character, whether the proposed facility is located 8 within any floodplains or other sensitive areas, odor 9 control plans, possible impact of the facility on 10 existing area traffic patterns, and possible impact of 11 the facility on community growth, tourism and 12 recreation, or economic development of the area. 13 Copies of those specific criteria were 14 available on the table with the sign-in sheets. If 15 anyone would like to have a copy of the criteria but 16 didn't pick one up, if you'd identify yourself, we'll 17 be happy to make sure that you receive a copy of those 18 criteria. All right. 19 Finally, the process that will be followed 20 after this evening's meeting is as follows: The 21 County Board will have up to 30 business days from 22 today's meeting to submit to the Department a 23 nonbinding recommendation relative to the proposed 24 siting of this facility. Thus a recommendation from 14 1 the Schuyler County Board is due at the Department on 2 or before June 14th. After the close of the County's 3 30-business-day comment period, the Department will 4 have 15 calendar days or until June 29th to review all 5 the information submitted to date, including the 6 notice of intent to construct, construction plans, 7 transcripts from this evening's meeting, the County 8 Board's recommendation, and any other additional 9 information submitted by the owners at the request of 10 the Department. Based upon that review, the 11 Department will determine whether the eight siting 12 criteria have been met. Once that determination has 13 been made, the Department will notify both the County 14 Board and the applicant of the Department's 15 determination. 16 Mr. Hearing Officer, at this time I'd like 17 to submit a completed notice of intent to construct 18 application and its associated file for formal entry 19 into the record as Exhibit 1. 20 I would also like to submit a copy of the 21 PowerPoint presentation associated with my comments as 22 Exhibit 2. 23 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Entered into the 24 record as Exhibit No. 1 is the completed notice of 15 1 intent to construct, including correspondence between 2 the Department and the applicant, notices of the 3 public informational meeting, and correspondence with 4 the Schuyler County officials. 5 Entered into the record as Exhibit No. 2 6 is a copy of the Department's PowerPoint presentation. 7 MR. GOETSCH: This concludes my formal 8 remarks. 9 Again, I'd like to thank you all for your 10 attention. I look forward to hearing your comments 11 regarding the proposal and now turn it back to the 12 hearing officer. 13 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Thank you, 14 Mr. Goetsch. 15 At this time we'll hear comments from the 16 facility. 17 Please state your name and spell your last 18 name for the court reporter. 19 DR. HOLLIS: William Hollis, and last name 20 is H-o-l-l-i-s. 21 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Are you the only 22 one who will be presenting testimony? 23 DR. HOLLIS: No. I will be presenting on 24 behalf of the Grand Tower Farms' owners regarding 16 1 their company and PSM, and Chris West will be 2 presenting regarding the engineering and construction 3 design. 4 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. Please 5 raise your right hand. 6 (Dr. Hollis was duly sworn.) 7 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: You may proceed. 8 DR. HOLLIS: Thank you. 9 And is the microphone acceptable? Can you 10 hear me okay in the back? All right. 11 Well, first off, I appreciate the 12 attendance, and I welcome your questions. Our job 13 tonight is to share with you the intentions of Grand 14 Tower Farms and also to explain how we're doing what 15 we do so that we can answer your questions. And I'm 16 going to try not to keep turning around. I'm going to 17 look at my notes here, but if there are things that 18 you have in terms of questions in my slides, please 19 keep those, and when we get to the questioning period, 20 I'm certainly -- certainly open to answer your 21 questions. 22 So understandably tonight is about Grand 23 Tower Farms and who we are, what Grand Tower Farms 24 plans to do, and then why -- why we're here, why we're 17 1 in Schuyler County. I can answer those briefly in 2 that Grand Tower Farms is an LLC company organized to 3 build a sow farm, and that sow farm is to produce baby 4 pigs for multiple farmer-owners. And so Grand Tower 5 Farms is a group of independent individual farmers 6 that come together to build a sow farm and each have a 7 portion of ownership. Grand Tower Farms is owned by 8 those producers that will own and feed those pigs. 9 And so who we are is both an LLC company of 10 independent farmers who have pooled their resources to 11 build a sow farm and then also hired Professional 12 Swine Management, and that's myself and some other 13 folks that are with me here tonight to talk about what 14 we plan to do and why we are here. 15 What we plan to do is help those farmers. 16 We have several farmers that have worked with us for 17 years, and they have seen the benefit of an isolated 18 sow farm structured specifically to produce healthy 19 baby pigs for their operation, and that's why they've 20 asked us to do this. 21 Why we're here is because Schuyler County 22 is well suited for manure and the application of 23 manure on cropland and is well suited with trees and 24 protection for the operation of the facility. So 18 1 that's why we're here. 2 And, frankly, I grew up in Bushnell and 3 have lived in Hamilton for 16 years and been in the 4 veterinary practice in Carthage for 16 years. And so 5 we live here, and we're happy to be here and see this 6 as an opportunity. 7 Tonight, in a more basic form, is also 8 about the people behind this operation, how we've come 9 together; and it's about the pigs and what we intend 10 to do to operate the farm; and it's also about the 11 neighbors because the Illinois Department of 12 Agriculture recognizes neighbor concerns and want to 13 make certain that we have given you an opportunity to 14 share concerns, and so that's why we're here. 15 To start with the people, I want to share 16 some pictures, and so at the risk of shameless 17 promotion, you're going to see pictures about 18 Professional Swine Management and about the way we 19 intend to operate Grand Tower Farms. These will be 20 pictures of veterinarians, of farm managers, farm 21 staff employees, engineers, nutritionists, people that 22 work with us or work for the farmers that are building 23 this operation. 24 These happen to be kids that are my son 19 1 and my partner's daughter. We are raising our 2 families here. And this happens to be Jorge Solano, 3 who is a manager at one of the sow farms. We are 4 hiring people both local and from out of the area that 5 are fully documented citizens of the U.S. that bring 6 all their documentation to us and are fully qualified. 7 And Jorge's an excellent example of somebody who has 8 been here for a very long time and has established 9 himself as very successful as a manager and operating 10 a facility. 11 This is another farm, in the office, and 12 that's Janet Ruddy. Janet lives in Vermont and 13 operates a farm that we oversee here in the area, and 14 she's meeting with her farm staff in the office. 15 This is the Professional Swine Management 16 office staff and production teams. We operate out of 17 Carthage, Illinois. Professional Swine Management is 18 the management service company. Grand Tower Farms, a 19 group of farmer-owners, pool their resources, build 20 the farm, and hire Professional Swine Management to 21 operate the farm. And so these folks who you see here 22 are full-time employees of Professional Swine 23 Management out of Carthage. 24 And this is just a combination of all the 20 1 different folks that are involved in Professional 2 Swine Management. 3 Those 27 different farm locations have 4 collectively 340 full-time employees and part-time 5 employees. We also have several co-op high school 6 students that work through the farms. Those -- the 7 picture I showed you earlier had the 34 full-time and 8 part-time employees directly as part of PSM. Two of 9 those are Ph.D.s, one in nutrition, one in 10 environmental science. Important to note that over 11 the years, as PSM has grown, we've hired the people 12 that have the skill set to help the farmers we service 13 to do a professional job of operating and organizing 14 their farm for a successful production. 15 Oh, and the folks in the office that 16 helped me put this together also thought it was 17 important to share that, of those 34 PSM direct office 18 staff, there's 134 children and -- that's got to be 19 from all the farm staff, Julie -- 134 children and 61 20 grandchildren; so -- I'm sure that we don't all have 21 six or eight kids apiece. 22 PSM was established in 2000; again, 23 manages 27 different farm locations; and, again, is 24 hired by those family farmers who trust us to raise 21 1 their livestock and to educate their employees. 2 One of those examples of our education 3 program -- we call it the Total Leadership Experience, 4 and for the last eight years, each year we have 5 identified ten people within our business to come 6 together every other month for a Friday and learn 7 about leadership and personal career development. 8 It's been a very successful way to help career 9 development. The folks that have chosen to be in the 10 swine industry see it as a long-term career path and a 11 successful job for them. 12 This is, again, a shameless promotion of 13 our business, but I want you to understand why we're 14 excited about what we do and why we believe that 15 there's opportunity for farmers that want us to help 16 them organize and operate their business. This slide 17 shows that in the 1980s and '90s our business was more 18 involved in record keeping, which is PigChamp, and in 19 genetic multiplication, which is overseeing the 20 production of breeding stock. In the late '90s and 21 early 2000s, it was a lot more about beginning to 22 build sow farms, and that's the picture that you see 23 at the bottom which says Cooperative Sow Farms. In 24 the late '90s -- mid and late '90s is when farmers 22 1 started to recognize the benefit of segregated 2 production where that sow farm is isolated and is also 3 operated by a professional team of employees, and they 4 trusted us to help those employees. And in the last 5 two or three years, we begin to focus more on learning 6 and education and development, and that's the bottom 7 picture. 8 We've also invested back in the community. 9 So Professional Swine Management and the partners in 10 Professional Swine Management have purchased an old 11 college building in Carthage, helped clean up that 12 building and clean up that block area, have helped 13 clean up a local dormitory for some housing for people 14 that are trying to find a place to live locally, and 15 reinvested in the community. 16 These are just some more pictures of 17 employees on the farm and some of the activities 18 recognizing successful long-term career employees. 19 These are our production supervisors 20 volunteering at the Illinois Pork Producer meeting -- 21 or sorry -- Illinois Pork Patio at the Illinois State 22 Fair. So they're cooking pork chops. 23 The take-home message I again would want 24 to reinforce is that PSM -- PSM's value is well 23 1 positioned to be in this rapidly changing agriculture 2 environment to help our clients achieve their goals. 3 We service independent farmers who have a desire to 4 remain competitive and successful in the pig business. 5 We believe there's a strong future of 6 young people that want to do this and see this grow, 7 and these happen to be veterinary students from the 8 University of Illinois. Three people in this slide 9 are now veterinarians that work in our business. 10 There are -- well, I'm sorry. This gentleman, Terry 11 Foust, Dr. Ann Johnson, and Dr. Aaron Lower came to 12 Carthage at various different times through student 13 programs and chose to stay here. So we're reinvesting 14 in the area and bringing people to the area that we 15 believe will bring value and develop the area. So we 16 see it as a strong positive. 17 Tonight's also about the pigs, and we 18 recognize that we may not have always in the past 19 explained what we do on pig farms -- big farm with a 20 big sign out front that says "Do Not Enter" and not 21 welcoming or not explaining what we do. So tonight is 22 also about the pigs, and we want you to understand a 23 little more about what we do. 24 It's not about these pigs. When I was in 24 1 4-H in Bushnell, I showed at the Schuyler County Fair. 2 We brought pigs in from the outside. It wasn't the 3 best way. Carrying feed buckets wasn't the best way 4 for the health of the animal or the successful 5 development of the pigs. It's still done, but it's 6 not done in a cost competitive manner to achieve the 7 pork loin or the bacon or the ham that we have that's 8 so cost competitive today. That's why we've chosen to 9 help producers in our business to -- to grow with 10 healthy livestock facilities, sustainable livestock 11 facilities that are better for the animal. 12 So Illinois is number four in U.S. pork 13 production. There's about 4.55 million pigs in -- and 14 this is through the Illinois Ag Statistics Service. 15 We sometimes get bantered about that Illinois is 16 growing and it's going to be just like Iowa. I want 17 you to recognize Iowa has about 25 million pigs. Big 18 difference in Illinois and Iowa. And so Illinois is a 19 very successful corn producing state, and feeding that 20 corn through pigs is something that we see as a great 21 deal of value. 22 These are the products that we are 23 aspiring to produce -- so baby pigs that will leave 24 Grand Tower Farms at 21 days of age. They'll be 25 1 weaned from their mothers, placed on transport 2 vehicles to go to those farmer-owners that -- some of 3 which are as far away as Minnesota and Indiana and 4 Iowa. Those farmers see this as a great location for 5 their farm and a healthy location to raise their baby 6 pigs that will be delivered to their farms and also 7 producers in Illinois. 8 This is a picture of inside one of the 9 sow farms. She is getting ready to real time -- I'm 10 sorry -- to -- that's a back fat meter. Getting ready 11 to do some back fat testing on breeding animal gilts 12 to see how thick the back fat is, and these are 13 breeding crews behind her doing artificial -- 14 artificial insemination. 15 This happens to be a farrowing stall, and 16 inside the farrowing building where the sows give 17 birth, there are individual stalls to protect baby 18 pigs during lactation. So this is very common in the 19 swine industry for gestation housing: providing 20 individual housing during the breeding process and 21 individual feeding for the sows during that process, 22 and then also in farrowing to protect the baby pigs. 23 And, of course, again, this is the 24 product, and we -- we work very hard to provide 26 1 healthy pigs for the farmers that own the facilities. 2 The pork industry consumes about 10 3 percent of the U.S. corn crop and about 10 percent of 4 the soybean crop, and so we also believe that pork 5 production is highly valuable to corn producers in 6 this state and the surrounding area. Illinois hogs 7 consume more than 94 million bushels of corn and 28 8 million bushels of soybeans right here in Illinois. 9 The sows and gilts at Grand Tower Farms 10 will consume approximately 180,000 bushels of locally 11 grown corn. So that farm will have approximately -- 12 and Chris West is going to speak to the detail of the 13 buildings and the sow populations, but that farm will 14 be approximately 6,000 mother sows giving birth to 15 baby pigs that will be hauled off the farm two or 16 three times a week, and those sows and their 17 developing gilts that are held back for breeding will 18 consume approximately 180,000 bushels of corn. 19 PSM, operating out of Carthage, manages 20 those farms in the area, and the herds that we manage 21 consume 2.5 million bushels of locally grown corn that 22 is milled through the NSI mill located in Carthage. 23 So we, again, believe that we're a strong supporter of 24 the local economy. And this is just a picture of that 27 1 NSI mill if you're familiar with Carthage. 2 Tonight's also about the neighbors, and we 3 recognize neighbor concerns, and we also recognize the 4 value of a dialogue so we can understand each other 5 and respect the concerns that you have about the way 6 we will operate and the way that we have handled 7 concerns that have been raised in the past. 8 Grand Tower Farms was selected as a site. 9 So other sites have been looked at, and other farmers 10 have been talked to that have the desire for manure to 11 be applied to their cropland. Grand Tower Farms was 12 selected because it's a safe location for odor 13 control, great deal of tree cover. It's minimized -- 14 the impact of the trucks will minimize traffic. 15 There's not a lot of traffic disruption that's going 16 to occur with the location that's been selected. 17 And it's a valuable location to apply manure nutrients 18 back into the soil, to the cropland in that area. 19 Grand Tower Farms will also purchase a 20 neighboring house. They've already worked with 21 purchase -- actually already have -- I'm sorry -- 22 purchased this house. That house will be utilized for 23 a farm staff member residence, and if you're familiar 24 with the location, this was a Greene property prior to 28 1 their purchase and very happy to have this available. 2 Not all the farms that PSM manages have that as an 3 option, but in this situation we see it as a great 4 positive, and it was certainly available to them and 5 is very close to the farm. 6 We also recognize that there's concern for 7 regulation and history of regulation where PSM was 8 involved in issues raised by regulatory agencies, 9 corrections that were requested. I wanted to bring a 10 few of those examples forward because they are 11 examples of how PSM learns and complies. 12 There is a farm near Colmar called 13 Pinnacle that built a truck wash on the farm. There 14 will not be a truck wash at Grand Tower Farms, but 15 it's an example of regulation that was brought to PSM. 16 That truck wash was found in violation of the way they 17 handled the wash water, and so a septic tank was 18 installed, and the wash water was collected and land 19 applied. Compliance is critical and is something that 20 PSM takes very seriously and addresses appropriately. 21 A second example is a farm near Durham 22 called Wildcat, and Wildcat farm had a clean-out, 23 which I'll show you a picture of, that was run over by 24 a contract mower. Folks that were hired to come in 29 1 and mow around the property hit the sewer clean-out 2 which is a PVC pipe. Show you a picture. 3 When the manure was flushed from the 4 farrowing building over to gestation, manure came out 5 of the top of the clean-out. When that manure and 6 rainwater was rushing off -- or washing off the ground 7 and down the ground to along the road, that was not 8 acceptable. That was cleaned up and corrected. It 9 was corrected in this manner. These clean-outs now 10 have pipes around them and are easily flagged and 11 easily noticeable with rock around them so that we 12 hope that doesn't happen again. 13 Again, it's the decision to be a good 14 neighbor and to continue to comply with ongoing 15 regulation that we expect to continue. 16 This an example -- I'm sorry. We also 17 understand concerns for how we're going to protect the 18 environment -- protecting the environment and making 19 these farms long-term sustainable. Manure application 20 is something that I'll let Chris West speak to, but 21 the manure plan and design for Grand Tower Farms is to 22 have 12 months of storage. So a decision is made by 23 Grand Tower Farms to build a ten-foot-deep 24 underbuilding concrete storage facility which is very 30 1 typical in the swine industry today. That exceeds the 2 requirement by law. So there's a five-month 3 requirement. Grand Tower Farms has made the decision 4 to have 12 months of storage. 5 Grand Tower has also made the decision to 6 oversize the compost structure. Composting is 7 commonly used for dead animals. So if a sow dies or 8 baby pigs die on the farm, they are placed in compost, 9 covered with saw dust, and allowed to decompose in 10 that facility. That structure will be sized 11 sufficiently for containment, made out of concrete, 12 and have a roof to protect it from rainwater. And 13 that's what composting looks like. 14 So, in summary, we want to be here. We 15 want to be your neighbor, and we are living in the 16 community today. Some of the things we've done in the 17 community I want to end with. There's 27 farm site 18 locations. Our tree planting plan -- this is our tree 19 planting plan for 2012: over 5,455 trees. So a lot 20 of trees being planted this year around existing 21 farms. And we put the types of trees because that's 22 commonly asked -- What types of trees will they be? 23 These will be some fast growing and some slow growing, 24 some with green all year round and some that will 31 1 loose their leaves, but a lot of trees. 2 We also have many ponds and lakes on the 3 farms that PSM manages today, and so of those, the 4 fish are already stocked in these, and these farms 5 that will have a lake or a pond water will have fish 6 stocked in them. And our, again, 2012 plan on these 7 27 locations is 4,265 fish. So many of these sites, 8 Grand Tower Farms included -- Grand Tower Farms will 9 have a pond, and that pond will be stocked with fish. 10 Few more community pictures, and then 11 I'll get off the shameless promotion slides. The 12 community also sees our vets in the school. This is 13 Dr. Kelly Greiner. His kids were in this kinde -- his 14 daughter -- I'm sorry -- was in this kindergarten 15 class, and he took a Pigs and Pork -- provided by the 16 Illinois Pork Producers -- book to talk to the kids in 17 the school. 18 PSM and Carthage Veterinary Service and 19 Innovative Swine Solutions, many different farm 20 service companies work out of our office -- we get 21 together and put on an Easter egg hunt during Easter 22 weekend. This is something that used to be done in 23 Carthage, and when we purchased the college campus, 24 the staff said, you know, it would be nice to do this 32 1 again. And it was very well attended, as can you see. 2 This is something local: We provided sows 3 to Houser Meats here outside of Rushville that were 4 processed and the meat was provided to the Illinois 5 Food Bank. And so sow farms managed by PSM, along in 6 cooperation with Cargill Meats out of Beardstown, 7 donated sows and market pigs. Houser Meats did the 8 processing and packaging, and the meat was provided. 9 I talked to Pork Producers again today, and I think it 10 was approximately 1500 pounds of pork provided to the 11 Illinois Food Bank. So, again, we intend to be a good 12 neighbor. 13 Last few slides. Grand Tower Farms, LLC, 14 as a business, the economic investment, approximately 15 $11 million. We've already talked about the corn. 16 Approximately 940 acres will be fertilized on an 17 annual basis. That's about $200,000 worth of NP&K 18 when you look at the fertilizer value today based on 19 commercial cost. Employees: estimated 18 to 20 20 employees. Payroll: estimated $750,000 a year. And 21 that's just Grand Tower Farms. Just that farm. 22 We also ran the real estate tax estimates 23 based off of the 2010 rates and based off of our -- 24 our team contacted the Schuyler County Courthouse and 33 1 had discussions with them about this based off of what 2 they assume to be tax rates going forward and what 3 they assume to be assessed valuation for the facility. 4 And I apologize for the small letters -- 5 or small numbers, but I'll read some of these to you: 6 Schuyler County General Fund, $14,000 a year. 7 Schuyler County Hospital District, 5,000 a year. 8 Township General Fund, 8,300. Township road and 9 bridge -- I think that's what R&B -- is that right? 10 Rock and bridge or -- road and bridge, 4,300 per year. 11 And then the schools -- we're not the 12 right people to say what -- where this money will go 13 and what it's supposed to be. These are estimates. 14 We think it would Schuyler County Unit Bond 1, 5,000, 15 and then Schuyler Southeastern School District, 16 49,000. That total is going to be approximately 17 $97,000 a year in real estate taxes, and this is based 18 off the other farms in the area, based off estimates 19 and ongoing operation of the facility. 20 Finally, this is why we do what we do: 21 These are young people working with one of our clients 22 north of Blandinsville. Put up barns, feeds pigs from 23 one of the farms that we manage, and he is growing his 24 personal business operation. He and his kids have a 34 1 successful business right here in town, utilize corn 2 right here in the local area, and are very good folks 3 to have in the community. Andy Johnson and his kids 4 live just outside of Blandinsville. Andy started out 5 as a farm employee, built his barn, went back to raise 6 pigs in his home barn, and he's been very successful. 7 So PSM wishes to have an excellent -- PSM 8 has an excellent track record of compliance and 9 service to the local economy, and we are well thought 10 of by many of our neighbors, and we want to be your 11 neighbor. 12 And that's the end of my presentation. 13 I would also like to ask Chris West to 14 come up and do his part of the topics for the owners 15 of Grand Tower regarding the construction and design. 16 And I have written test -- the written 17 slides to submit. 18 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. All right. 19 DR. HOLLIS: Thank you. 20 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Thank you, 21 Dr. Hollis. 22 Mr. West, when you're ready, please state 23 your name and spell your last name. 24 MR. WEST: Chris West, W-e-s-t. 35 1 (Mr. West was duly sworn.) 2 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Thank you. You 3 may proceed. 4 MR. WEST: Well, I would also like to 5 thank everyone for coming this afternoon, and if for 6 some reason you can't hear me, just let me know and 7 I'll try to speak a little louder. 8 Again, my name is Chris West. I am the 9 owner of Frank and West Environmental Engineers out of 10 Springfield, Illinois. We have been working with 11 Professional Swine Management to provide the 12 engineering and the consulting services for this 13 proposed farm, and what I'm here for tonight is to go 14 over the eight siting criteria that Mr. Goetsch 15 outlined earlier and explain how this farm has or -- 16 and will meet each and every one of the eight siting 17 criteria. 18 The first thing we'll do is go over a site 19 layout of the facility showing the location and how 20 the barns are proposed to be laid out, and then we'll 21 go over the eight siting criteria and the conformance 22 with each of those. 23 Here shows the location. At the county 24 level, as I mentioned, it's in the southwest corner, 36 1 and this is about a five-mile radius, and then the 2 close-up view of the farm and the footprint that the 3 buildings will sit inside. 4 The buildings themselves: As you'll see 5 from the top down, we have an isolation barn that's 6 roughly 96 by -- feet by 63 feet. Next down is a gilt 7 developer barn, 280 feet by approximately 81 feet; a 8 farrowing barn, roughly 520 by 172 feet; and then 9 a -- the fourth will be a gestation barn -- a breeding 10 and gestation barn, 648 feet by 154 feet. These are 11 the dimensions and the approximate layouts for the 12 four buildings that were mentioned that will fit 13 inside the footprint on the earlier slide. 14 The eight siting criteria that we'll go 15 over tonight just in general, and then I'll follow up 16 with an exact definition of each one of these criteria 17 following this slide. 18 Siting criteria one is the registration 19 and certification requirements for the farm. 20 Number two: The design, location, and 21 operating standards for the farm. 22 Number three: The location compatibility. 23 Four: Floodplain and aquifer protection 24 for the area. 37 1 Five is the -- minimize the environmental 2 impact. 3 Number six: Odor control and reduction. 4 Number seven: The impacts of local 5 traffic patterns. 6 And number eight: Is the facility 7 consistent with area development. 8 Siting criteria one: As I mentioned, I 9 won't go read the whole definition, but it is up 10 there. It deals with the registration and 11 certification requirements. 12 The notice of intent, as Mr. Goetsch said 13 earlier, was filed with the Department of Ag February 14 22nd of this year. It was deemed complete March 13th 15 of this year. 16 According to the Livestock Management 17 Facilities Act, which are the regulations that govern 18 the locating and the design of these type of 19 facilities, states that any facility which exceeds 20 1,000 animal units but is less than 5,000 animal units 21 shall maintain, implement -- and implement a waste 22 management plan within 60 days of commencing 23 operation. 24 This farm will definitely have -- prepare, 38 1 maintain, and implement a comprehensive nutrient 2 management plan. The farm will submit to the 3 Department of Ag, as required, a waste management plan 4 certification form certifying that the plan has been 5 prepared. The farm will keep that comprehensive 6 nutrient management plan on site, as well as records 7 on file at the farm, and this will be available to the 8 Department of Ag personnel for inspection at any time. 9 Part two of siting criteria one: Again, 10 talking about the waste management plan, the goal of 11 any comprehensive nutrient management plan is to 12 utilize the manure produced by the farm from the 13 animals, to apply them at agronomic rates that meet 14 the nutrient needs of the locally grown crops in an 15 environmentally sound fashion. This goal will be 16 accomplished by developing the CNMP, the comprehensive 17 nutrient management plan, that includes all the 18 following: the total animal manure volumes produced, 19 historically proven yields from the areas -- from the 20 application areas that the manure will go on, manure 21 analysis to provide the nutrient content of the 22 manure, agronomic loading rates of the manure, land 23 application provisions for setback and incorporation 24 standards, and documentation of all phases of the 39 1 plan. 2 Siting criteria two also deals with the 3 design and operation standards -- whether the design, 4 location, and proposed operation will protect the 5 environment by being consistent with the Livestock 6 Management Facilities Act. 7 This facility will be designed according 8 to the Midwest Plan Service, which is a group of 9 universities that come together throughout the midwest 10 to put design standards together for these type of 11 facilities. So that's the basis for the design for 12 any livestock facility in the State of Illinois. 13 Those standards -- I'm not used to looking -- having 14 the screen behind me. Those standards deal with and 15 specify concrete requirements, reinforcement 16 requirements, as well as waterstop requirements. 17 The design for the proposed farm will 18 consist of, as I mentioned earlier, a gestation barn, 19 a farrowing barn, a gilt developer, and an 20 isolation/nursery barn. And this will give you a 21 general idea of how the facility will look -- not the 22 exact same sizes but general layout is correct. 23 We'll go from right to left. We have the 24 gestation barn, and this is another example of the 40 1 type of setup that we would typically see inside a 2 gestation barn. Next we have a farrowing barn. And, 3 again, this is a farrowing pen similar to what 4 Dr. Hollis showed earlier. We have our gilt developer 5 barn, and these would be typical pen sizes and pen 6 shapes that we would see inside a gilt developer unit. 7 And, finally, the nursery barn. And these generally 8 show the size and shape compared to each other. And 9 then we have a nursery pen inside one of the 10 facilities that's managed by Professional Swine 11 Management. Actually all of those pictures are 12 pictures from units managed by Professional Swine 13 Management. 14 The last part of siting criteria two deals 15 with the location of the facility. Locations -- 16 setback distances for all requirements have been met 17 both for occupied residents and populated areas as the 18 farm was -- the farm location was deemed complete by 19 the Department of Ag March 13th of this year. 20 The proposed operation, also part of 21 siting criteria two. The Livestock Management 22 Facilities Act states that any farm over a certain 23 size of a thousand animal units, they're required to 24 be -- they're required to have at least one certified 41 1 livestock manager at the site. This is a program that 2 was developed by the Department of Ag to educate 3 livestock managers on manure management handling and 4 systems. Managers of farms over a thousand animal 5 units are required to go through a training course by 6 the Department of Ag as well as to take and pass an 7 exam. 8 And, as I mentioned earlier, the waste 9 management plan will detail the operation of the farm 10 so that all manure applications will be based on 11 site-specific data. So the information that's 12 generated by the farm will be put into the plan, and 13 then that will govern all manure applications. 14 Siting criteria three deals with the 15 location and compatibility of the farm. Rural areas 16 within Schuyler County are not zoned, and the 17 Department of Ag, again, deemed that the setbacks for 18 the facility were completed March 13th of this year. 19 The farm is compatible with the surrounding area in 20 that the area is a rural agricultural area. So it 21 fits in well with -- it's consistent with the area at 22 this time. 23 Setbacks. I'll kind of go through the 24 farm, the proposed animal numbers, and how we generate 42 1 these setback distances and numbers. 8,000 animals of 2 greater than 55 pounds equals 3,200 animal units. The 3 8,000 animals of greater than 55 pounds can be broken 4 up into 6,200 mature sows and 1,800 growing gilts for 5 breeding replacement. There will be 10,026 animals of 6 less than 55 pounds equal to 300.78 animal units. 7 Those 10,026 will consist of 750 young gilts and about 8 9,276 baby piglets. This has a total farm animal unit 9 of 3,500.78, and this generates an occupied residence 10 setback of 1,760 feet and a populated area setback of 11 3,520 feet. 12 And now we can show the map. The blue 13 area in the center is the footprint that these 14 buildings will sit within. The black line represents 15 the residential setback of 1,760, and the orange line 16 around the outside perimeter represents the populated 17 area setback of 3,520 feet. There are no occupied 18 residences within the first setback, and there are no 19 populated areas within the second setback. 20 Siting criteria four deals with floodplain 21 and aquifer protection. This shows a map of the 22 Schuyler County floodplain. Schuyler County, and we 23 show a north -- the -- in order to make it -- I 24 changed the color to make it stand out a little bit 43 1 better, but this is the same footprint that we've been 2 showing on other slides. The one thing that -- you 3 don't see any flood areas on here. This blue hatching 4 up here would represent a hundred-year flood area, and 5 there are none within the whole panel, let alone none 6 within any close proximity to the farm. 7 Another part of siting criteria four deals 8 with the karst area. Karst is generally located in 9 northwestern Illinois and in the western end and then 10 far southern Illinois, and there is -- you can see 11 Schuyler County here. There is a little tip down in 12 the far southern area but nothing close to the 13 southwestern corner where we're going to -- we're 14 proposing that this facility be built. 15 Aquifer material -- another portion of 16 what we look for when we do site investigations. And 17 basically aquifer material is considered sandstone 18 that is five feet or more in thickness or a 19 fractured carbonate or a mixture of sand and gravel. 20 Anything -- any loose type of material like that, 21 that's what -- that's one of the things that we would 22 be looking for. 23 We conducted a site investigation at the 24 location. This was done by advancing soil borings 44 1 within the perimeter within -- of each building. All 2 borings, as required, were advanced to at least five 3 feet below the planned bottom of each building. And 4 this is, again, to look for any sensitive soil 5 material, aquifer material. No aquifer material was 6 encountered in any of the borings. 7 And this is -- this is to give you an 8 example of how we would generate the depth of a 9 boring. You know, we have a ten-foot pit here, which 10 is -- well, we have two buildings proposed with 11 ten-foot pits. Total depth below the current exiting 12 grade, eight foot. So we would advance a boring at 13 least 13 feet below the ground to achieve that five- 14 foot increment below the bottom of that. 15 Now, obviously, this site is not flat; so 16 it's not going to -- the grade is not necessarily 17 going to look like that at every boring location. 18 This is an approximate to show you how we determine at 19 each location how deep we need to bore. 20 Siting criteria five: The facility's 21 minimization of environmental impact. The first thing 22 we'll talk about are spills. The facility's not 23 allowed by regulation to have spills. We handle 24 this -- each facility is designed well beyond the 45 1 minimum requirements. As Dr. Hollis mentioned, 2 minimum requirement is 150 days for a liquid manure 3 system. This we're required to have in excess of 365 4 days. So we built in a full year's worth of storage 5 at the facility. So that allows us -- if we were to 6 have a wet spring or a wet fall, which can happen, 7 that allows us to bypass an application season -- a 8 manure application season and then go on to the next 9 one and not have to worry about whether we're going to 10 run out of space. 11 This is also a closed system, and what I 12 mean by that is there's no entrance into the waste 13 storage structures -- into the manure storage 14 structures of any other liquid. There's no run-on 15 from rainwater or from freshwater. These are all 16 designed and the areas will be contoured so that there 17 will be no other water entering into the system. And 18 that's important because you -- if you have any other 19 water source entering the system, then you're lowering 20 the days of storage that you have. You're reducing 21 the volume that you have inside that barn. And as I 22 mentioned about the clean water, diversions will be 23 put around all the buildings, whether that be through 24 graded topography, where the building's a little bit 46 1 higher than the outside edge, and we grade that away 2 to allow roof water to drain away from the building. 3 Also allow water from the surrounding area to stay out 4 of the building as well. 5 Another part of -- a thing that I would 6 like to talk about with this siting criteria is 7 leaching, and that is the movement of any material 8 through another material. This farm is designed so as 9 to prevent a release of livestock manure. It will be 10 constructed of solid concrete with reinforced rebar, 11 minimum grade 60 steel rebar. Waterstop will be 12 placed at all joints or all stoppage joints. And what 13 these are, these are neoprene or rubber systems that 14 allow us to put it in the joint so that, if you have a 15 joint, which all concrete construction will have, it 16 allows us to maintain the integrity of that joint 17 while allowing it to shift, if necessary, but it 18 allow -- it keeps us the -- the structural integrity 19 so that nothing would leak outside that joint. All 20 surfaces that would be in contact with manure will 21 meet the appropriate permeability standards. 22 Siting criteria six: Odor control and/or 23 reduction. Grand Tower Farms will implement a 24 comprehensive odor control plan for the facility which 47 1 would consist of controlled land application of 2 manure, routine maintenance of the farm, feed 3 management, as well as the general location. Those 4 will all minimize the odor impact. 5 The controlled application of manure is 6 based on an injection system, and it will also be 7 based on actual nitrogen and phosphorus loading from 8 the manure itself. So once manure is in the pit, it 9 will be analyzed. It will be tested so we'll know 10 exactly what's in there, and then we can determine, 11 based on that data as well as the crop that this is 12 going to -- whether that be corn, soybean, a pasture 13 crop, whatever that would be -- we would base our rate 14 based on that crop and the material from the facility 15 itself. 16 The injection type of application puts the 17 material directly into the ground. It minimizes 18 contact with the air. It also -- it's also widely 19 accepted as the best available technology for manure 20 application. All livestock manure from the farm will 21 be custom applied by a certified manure applicator. 22 Application equipment will have numerous safety 23 controls. An example of this could be equipment that 24 will be visually monitored continuously. So when 48 1 manure is being applied, there will always be somebody 2 there watching it. Emergency shutoffs in the cab. 3 Communication between personnel available at all 4 times. So there will be multiple people that will be 5 involved in the manure application at either end of 6 the system and in the middle. Those will all be in 7 contact with each other so, if something were to go 8 wrong, they could contact the person with the ability 9 to shut it off, and it would be shut off immediately. 10 This is an example of a drag line manure 11 injection system. Basically, you see the tractor and 12 the tool bar behind that that's placing this directly 13 in the ground. It's placing it in the root zone where 14 it can be used for its intended purposes. The plants 15 can take that up and use it as a -- as the best 16 fertilizer that is available. 17 Grand Tower Farms has at least 1,020 acres 18 of tillable ground available for land applications and 19 420 acres of pasture ground available locally per year 20 for livestock waste applications. And, again, this is 21 important to stress: We'll be utilizing local yields. 22 This is not based on a statewide system. The fields 23 that we go to, we'll know what the yield is for that 24 field. We'll know what the cropping type is. We'll 49 1 know what the tillage practices are. We'll know what 2 the soil types are. So we'll be able to plan the 3 application for that field. 4 The application rate annually is 5 equivalent to about four tenths of an inch rain. So 6 just to give you an idea of how much manure we'd be 7 putting on every acre, that's about what it's 8 equivalent to is four tenths of an inch. 9 The farm will also utilize regular 10 maintenance to reduce the odors generated by the 11 facility, to minimize dust originating from the 12 facility. This routine maintenance will include 13 visual walk-throughs on a regular basis to ensure 14 there is no manure buildup above the slated floor or 15 on the walkways and the regular cleaning of fans to 16 prevent the accumulation of dust. And the reason this 17 is important is it's widely known that odor particles 18 are transported on dust. So by minimizing the dust 19 from the facility, by keeping it clean, by keeping 20 your fans cleans to allow the fans to operate at their 21 most efficient, then you're minimizing that transport 22 out of the building. 23 The facility will also be thoroughly 24 pressure washed and sanitized between each production 50 1 cycle, and this, again, minimizes the amount of 2 odor-causing particles that are able to leave the 3 facility through the ventilation fans. The farm will 4 ensure constantly that the fans operate efficiently, 5 thus minimizing dust buildup. Regular facility 6 maintenance, as I mentioned, is known to reduce odor 7 concentrations and odor intensity. 8 The facility will immediately incorporate 9 an animal diet formulated to allow the most efficient 10 utilization of proteins and nutrients in the feed. 11 This dietary practice aids in the reduction of overall 12 odor particles, odor from the facility, by reducing 13 excess nutrients excreted by the animals. So 14 basically what this means is they're going to get the 15 most efficient food possible to generate -- so that 16 the least amount of excess nutrients will be generated 17 by the animals. Those are the particles that also are 18 involved in the odors of the facility. 19 The facility complies with and exceeds the 20 facility setback distances as established in the 21 Livestock Management Facilities Act. The residential 22 setback has been exceeded by 522 feet. The populated 23 area setback has been exceeded by over 25,000 feet. 24 So well over four miles. 51 1 The comprehensive odor control plan 2 consists of farm location and maintenance, proper 3 nutrition, and the injection of manure. The farm has 4 diligently planned an overall odor control strategy 5 for this farm by incorporating numerous control 6 technologies. The farm will also continue to look for 7 and incorporate other technologies as they become 8 available. The strategic plan incorporates reasonable 9 and innovative technologies that will allow the 10 facility to operate with minimal odor impact to the 11 surrounding area. 12 Siting criteria seven is traffic patterns. 13 We have a map, again, using the same footprint that we 14 have put in before. This will be the -- there will be 15 arrows that show the intended traffic pattern out to 16 La Prairie Road north of the facility. The blue arrow 17 indicates the farm road going out to Peck Road. The 18 light blue arrow indicates the road that will be used 19 on Peck Road to Timewell. And then the yellow arrow 20 indicates the traffic pattern north of the facility 21 there. 22 We also went -- went to the Department of 23 Transportation and obtained their traffic numbers from 24 their counts that they do. On Timewell Road west of 52 1 the facility, they have a daily average of 25 2 vehicles, a weekly average of 175 vehicles. The 3 facility is assuming that they'll have about seven 4 trucks a week from the farm. Those are both for feed 5 transportation and for animal transportation. So 6 that's basically -- averages out to be about one truck 7 per week -- I'm sorry -- one truck per day per week. 8 This calculates out to be about 4 percent of the 9 average daily vehicle traffic just west of the farm 10 there on Timewell Road. 11 We also went up to the intersection of 12 Illinois Route 99 and La Prairie south of Camden. 13 This has a daily average of 650 vehicles, a weekly 14 average of 4,550 vehicles. About 88 percent of 15 those vehicles are personal vehicles -- cars, trucks, 16 so forth. Another 12 percent are multiple-unit 17 vehicles -- so tandem trucks, single axle trucks, and 18 semitrailer trucks. That's what accounts for that 19 number. Again, we're talking about seven trucks 20 weekly. So if we look at this location, we're going 21 to consist of about 1 1/4 percent of the average daily 22 multiple-unit traffic at this location. 23 Grand Tower Farms will also comply with 24 the seasonal -- the same seasonal posted weight limits 53 1 as all other traffic in the area. We expect no 2 favors. So we'll -- the farm will comply with the 3 posted weight limits. 4 Siting criteria eight deals with the -- if 5 the facility is consistent with the area development 6 by definition. We believe the farm as it's proposed 7 is consistent with existing and planned community 8 development of this rural agricultural area. 9 By demonstrating compliance with zoning 10 and setback laws, the farm will meet all of the 11 requirements of the Livestock Management Facilities 12 Act. 13 I appreciate the opportunity to show you 14 how this facility will meet all of the eight siting 15 criteria, and we look forward to any questions you may 16 have. 17 Thank you. 18 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Thank you, 19 Mr. West. 20 Also entered into the record as Exhibit 21 No. 3 is presentation from the facility 22 representatives. 23 We will now open the meeting for any 24 questions that you may have of the facility or the 54 1 Department. If you have a question that you would 2 like to ask, please raise your hand and, when called 3 upon, please state your name and also spell your last 4 name. Please indicate to whom you are directing your 5 question. 6 I will remind you that this portion of the 7 meeting will be limited to questions only. After this 8 question-and-answer session, there will be a session 9 dedicated to public testimony where you can provide 10 your oral comments. So, please, limit this session to 11 questions only. 12 Since we have a small group here tonight 13 and we don't have a portable microphone, we would ask 14 that you stand and state your question loudly so we 15 can all hear. 16 Are there questions? 17 Yes, ma'am. 18 MS. SULLIVAN: My name is Pat Sullivan, 19 S-u-l-l-i-v-a-n. 20 Will you be using biofilters for your odor 21 control? 22 MR. WEST: No. They're not proposed. No. 23 MS. SULLIVAN: Pardon me? 24 MR. WEST: No, ma'am. They are not 55 1 proposed. 2 MS. SULLIVAN: And I'm sorry. I meant to 3 direct that to you, Mr. West. 4 And -- but you stated that you will be 5 using state of the art -- when new things come out 6 that are better, you'll be using them. I'm not 7 quoting you exactly but -- and it's known -- are you 8 aware of the research that 90 percent of the odor can 9 be controlled using biofilters and they have been -- 10 they are available and they have been available for 11 years now? 12 MR. WEST: I -- actually I am, and I have 13 worked with some of the research facilities that the 14 University of Illinois has with biofilters, but they 15 pose other problems as well. They are -- one of the 16 main concerns of a biofilter are they house rodents 17 terribly. They are a terrible housing location for 18 rodents. Rats find their way into there, and that's 19 one of the issues that all -- and that's one of the 20 reasons why they're not widely used. 21 Another one is they don't necessarily work 22 as well at every location. It depends on the filter 23 media, and they're still really in the testing stages 24 on a lot of that to find out what works the best to 56 1 minimize -- to minimize odor and to minimize the other 2 impacts as well. 3 So if there's ever one that comes up that 4 works great, I'm sure all facilities across the state 5 would be happy to implement those. 6 MS. SULLIVAN: And what are the measures 7 that you use? You said you have several different 8 measures that you use for -- 9 MR. WEST: Yeah. We went through those in 10 the PowerPoint presentation. 11 MS. SULLIVAN: Well, you summarized. You 12 said you use several different ones, and you mentioned 13 fans. That's all I heard. 14 MR. WEST: Oh, actually, no. I went 15 through several. Diet control is one of the things. 16 Routine maintenance. All of those items as well as 17 the injection of the manure, the siting of the 18 facility. All of those go into the odor control plan. 19 MS. SULLIVAN: Okay. I understand what 20 you're saying. But don't you feel that the -- and I 21 guess maybe I don't understand the difference, but 22 if -- if a major complaint being of these facilities 23 is the odor and if 90 percent can be controlled with 24 biofilters and the big issue that you're mentioning is 57 1 rodents, I'm thinking the neighbors -- 2 MR. WEST: Well, it's not -- it's not just 3 rodents, but I would question the 90 percent number as 4 well. 5 MS. SULLIVAN: It's in the research that I 6 have here. 7 MR. WEST: Okay. I'd be happy to look at 8 it. 9 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Are there any 10 other questions? 11 Sir, in the orange shirt in back. 12 MR. WHITE: Mr. West -- 13 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Can you state your 14 name and spell your last name. 15 MR. WHITE: Oh, Jeff White, W-h-i-t-e. 16 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: What was your 17 first name? 18 MR. WHITE: Jeff. 19 The next phase after tonight is then when 20 you go into the design or engineering phase of 21 building; correct? 22 MR. WEST: Yes, sir. 23 MR. WHITE: Your firm has never knowingly 24 skimp on these designs that would be a violation of 58 1 federal or state law; right? 2 MR. WEST: No. 3 MR. WHITE: Okay. Can I ask one other 4 one? 5 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Yes. Go ahead. 6 MR. WHITE: Just out of curiosity, once 7 you get done with the design work, do you actually 8 place an individual from your firm to assure the 9 construction site meets the design site or engineering 10 site? 11 MR. WEST: My firm does not. I am there 12 from time to time, but I am not there full time. 13 There are other individuals from another engineering 14 firm that -- there is someone there at all times, and 15 actually several people there to oversee the 16 construction. 17 MR. WHITE: That acts as the project 18 manager then. 19 MR. WEST: Yes. 20 MR. WHITE: All right. Thank you. 21 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Other questions? 22 Hang on just a second. 23 MR. GOETSCH: I would just like to add 24 that, as part of the Department's role in this, we do 59 1 review the proposed plans and specifications before 2 any approval would ever be given. And then we're 3 required to make a minimum of at least one inspection 4 during construction and then -- again, assuming that 5 an approval was given -- and then ultimately after 6 construction was completed but before the facility was 7 allowed to be placed into service, we make another 8 complete inspection again to make sure that any 9 facility that would be approved is truly built 10 consistent with the design that would have been 11 approved prior to construction began; so -- or 12 beginning. So the Department does make periodic 13 inspections during that construction process. 14 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Ma'am, you had a 15 question? 16 MS. WILSON: Mary Wilson, W-i-l-s-o-n. 17 On the budget, Mr. Hollis, the township 18 gets $8,343.17. For roads and bridges, it's 4,331.63. 19 I've seen some of the roads that have been destroyed 20 and have driven on them, and I would like to know if 21 you believe that that is sufficient to accommodate for 22 the traffic, and how can you ensure that the routes 23 that you're mentioning -- you know, your proposed 24 travel routes -- are being followed by people? 60 1 What I see on the map was the setback area 2 reaches into Brown County, and I've seen other setback 3 areas -- personal experience -- near my home where I'm 4 in Schuyler County but the confinement's just over the 5 line. So how do you compensate the other county? 6 And, you know, how do you take care -- in other words, 7 I hear you saying you want to be a good neighbor, but 8 are you willing to maintain some of these roads? And 9 how do you expect them to maintain those roads with 10 that amount of money? 11 DR. HOLLIS: Just -- is it Wilson? 12 MS. WILSON: Yes. Mary Wilson. 13 DR. HOLLIS: Mary Wilson? 14 MS. WILSON: Uh-huh. 15 DR. HOLLIS: Mary, I can tell you that we 16 have the same concern. We drive the same roads. And 17 there are suppliers in the room that have feed 18 trucks in all seasons, have pig trucks, and have 19 farming equipment. And so the farms are going to 20 abide by whatever the requirements are for the county. 21 Is 15,000 enough? There's better people 22 here to tell us that. Is 15,000 a lot for three miles 23 of road? Yeah, I would say that's -- that's a lot for 24 three miles of gravel road. 61 1 But I just -- I just don't know how to 2 answer your question other than through history, and 3 our history has been to work with road commissioners. 4 We know that all the roads that we intend to use are 5 in Huntsville Township, and the money from the real 6 estate taxes should stay in Huntsville Township. 7 So we know that our feed trucks will be 8 coming from the north, and we would anticipate that 9 the best access is the way the people will take. So 10 I'm -- I guess I'm giving a long answer to a short 11 question. The short answer would be, yes, we will pay 12 our taxes as required, and, yes, we have worked with 13 both county engineers and road commissioners to 14 discuss this problem. We cannot be counted on any 15 differently than anybody else in the county, and we 16 will certainly work to fix things that we tear up. If 17 you believe that it's justified that we've torn it up, 18 then we've got to be approached about it. I 19 understand. 20 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Are there other 21 questions? 22 Yes, sir. 23 MR. WHITE: Dr. Hollis, would you say that 24 Professional Swine Management is a locally owned 62 1 company? That is, Cargill doesn't own you or 2 anything. 3 DR. HOLLIS: That's correct. Yes. 4 MR. WHITE: And then of the 27 farms that 5 you manage currently, would you say that most of the 6 ownership of those 27 farms are by people that are 7 involved in agriculture today? 8 DR. HOLLIS: That's correct. 9 MR. WHITE: Thank you. 10 DR. HOLLIS: Yes, they are. 11 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Another question? 12 Yes, ma'am, front row. 13 MS. VALENTINE: My name is Sandra, and the 14 last name is Valentine, V-a-l-e-n-t-i-n-e. 15 And my question is to Warren. And I was 16 wondering if any other counties ever put any 17 restrictions on the confinements that we're talking 18 about -- their own restriction besides what you have. 19 Or that you know of. 20 MR. GOETSCH: No, I don't -- I don't 21 believe so. I mean, nothing comes to mind. I mean, 22 there have been cases where -- there have been a few 23 cases where, you know, controversy has been associated 24 with the proposal. The county looked at what they 63 1 could or couldn't do, but I don't recall anything 2 additional beyond what's included in the LMFA. 3 MS. VALENTINE: Thank you. 4 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Yes, ma'am. 5 MS. SULLIVAN: Dr. Hollis -- 6 COURT REPORTER: Your name again, please. 7 MS. SULLIVAN: Pat Sullivan, 8 S-u-l-l-i-v-a-n. 9 Is it true that PMS is involved in several 10 lawsuits because of environmental violations? 11 DR. HOLLIS: PSM is -- 12 MS. SULLIVAN: Thank you. 13 DR. HOLLIS: -- is working with the 14 Illinois EPA on satisfactorily resolution of apparent 15 violations that they submitted to the attorney general 16 for compliance and resolution. 17 And that's honestly about as far as I 18 would need to go tonight because tonight is about 19 Grand Tower Farms. I respect your question, and I 20 believe that we've submitted both to the Department of 21 Agriculture and to you how we intend to handle 22 regulatory and compliance issues. 23 MS. SULLIVAN: Again, you're saying you're 24 going to be a good neighbor, and this is what concerns 64 1 me, and so that's why I asked this question, and I'll 2 ask it again. At nine of our facilities you've had 3 violations, including discharging 90,000 gallons of 4 waste into local creeks. There's numerous violations, 5 and I'm -- I was going to say that later on in my 6 comment period, but there are at least -- am I right 7 in saying that at least three of the locations that 8 are -- that you are under -- from the attorney general 9 being sued by, that at least three are here in 10 Schuyler County currently? 11 DR. HOLLIS: I don't know -- 12 MS. SULLIVAN: Three facilities. There 13 are nine facilities that you have had problems with in 14 the area, and at least three of those are in Schuyler 15 County. 16 DR. HOLLIS: And over how many years? How 17 many years? 18 MS. SULLIVAN: I'm not -- I'm not saying 19 years. 20 DR. HOLLIS: Yeah. 21 MS. SULLIVAN: You're -- you're a good 22 neighbor, and you -- 23 DR. HOLLIS: Right. 24 MS. SULLIVAN: -- have not -- and you 65 1 always go by the regulations; so -- 2 DR. HOLLIS: Correct. We do. 3 MS. SULLIVAN: Have you slipped on these 4 occasions here and these are -- 5 DR. HOLLIS: No. No. 6 MS. SULLIVAN: Okay. Again, explain to me 7 how is it that you can have this many lawsuits if you 8 are playing by the rules and following all the 9 environmental guidelines. It concerns me. 10 DR. HOLLIS: Because we've been in 11 operation for a long time and because the 12 Environmental Protection Agency sees many things that 13 they are responsible to regulate and because we work 14 with them on compliance. And so what you're -- what 15 you're referring to is several years -- nearly a 16 decade, I believe -- and, yes, some are in Schuyler, 17 some are in McDonough, some are in Hancock. I can't 18 remember all of them. 19 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Mr. Anderson. 20 MR. ANDERSON: Nic Anderson, 21 A-n-d-e-r-s-o-n. 22 Bill, on the alleged violations and the 23 relationship you're working out with EPA and the 24 attorney general's office, are you willing to address 66 1 those environmental issues? 2 DR. HOLLIS: Absolutely. 3 MR. ANDERSON: And has Grand Tower Farms 4 and its ownership and its relationship with you been 5 in any violation with the EPA or the attorney general 6 up to this point? 7 DR. HOLLIS: No, they've not. 8 MR. ANDERSON: Thanks. 9 DR. HOLLIS: It's also worth mentioning, 10 both to answer your question and you, Ms. Sullivan, 11 that many of those nine incidents are a motor vehicle 12 accident, for example. So if a motor vehicle accident 13 creates a manure spill, it is still reported, 14 evaluated, and a compliance discussion begins. 15 So I'll leave it at that, but thanks for 16 the question. 17 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Yes, sir. Would 18 you state your name again, please. 19 MR. WHITE: Jeff White. 20 Mr. West, from what I understand of what 21 you showed this evening, this is a zero-discharge 22 facility; correct? 23 MR. WEST: That is correct. 24 MR. WHITE: You ever have accidents around 67 1 your house? 2 MR. WEST: Sure. 3 MR. WHITE: Thank you. 4 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Other questions? 5 Yes. Ms. Wilson. 6 MS. WILSON: Mary Wilson, W-i-l-s-o-n. 7 Can you explain to me why they -- instead 8 of using a head count, that they use the animal -- 9 animal units? I think that -- you know, I'm not sure 10 which one of you -- who needs to answer, but I would 11 like to understand why -- because it's -- to me it's 12 misrepresenting the number of animals that are on the 13 site. And, like, instead of a sow being counted each 14 sow, you only get .4 of hog for a sow. I mean, why -- 15 why have they come up with this formula? And what was 16 the benefit of it? What is the purpose? If you've 17 got 18,000 hogs on the site and then you say it's 18 3,500 units, that is to me -- some people don't 19 understand that. They think there's only going to be 20 3,500 hogs and in realty there's 18,000. So, you 21 know, why do they have the formula? 22 MR. GOETSCH: Just to confuse you. No. 23 I'm sorry. I just had to do that. 24 MS. WILSON: No. That's okay. 68 1 MR. GOETSCH: This really goes back to 2 the early '70s. The federal government with the 3 National -- National Pollutant Discharge Elimination 4 System, NPDES, is a permitting program. It's under 5 the Clean Water Act, and in those federal regulations, 6 they created the concept of animal units. 7 The reason for that, I believe -- because 8 I wasn't around at the time -- was to try and render 9 that regulation species neutral. It was a way of 10 trying to compare cattle with hogs, sheep, goats, and 11 to try and -- try and equilibrate the amount of manure 12 that's produced. 13 A one animal unit was equivalent to a 14 thousand-pound steer. So a sow, much smaller, you 15 know, than that thousand-pound steer, creates a lot 16 less manure. It was assigned the point -- you said 17 .4. I always get them confused. .4, .3, whatever it 18 is -- .4 animal units. But it was a way of trying to 19 -- trying to compare apples to apples when we're 20 talking about the amount of manure produced by certain 21 livestock. 22 So certain species, because of their size, 23 because of the amount of manure they produce, are 24 given a factor less than one. The factor of one being 69 1 associated with that thousand-pound cow -- cattle. 2 Does that make sense? 3 MS. WILSON: Yes. 4 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Are there other 5 questions? 6 Yes. 7 MS. WILSON: It's me again. Ms. Wilson. 8 I also -- you know, in light of the 9 confinement that's in Schuyler County now having a 10 fire and I'm under the impression that it's methane 11 gas -- I'm not sure who I'm putting this to, who wants 12 to answer it. But with the methane gas, the fire, and 13 other fires in confinements, I'm concerned that the 14 volume of manure for 12 months -- are we going to have 15 another fire in Schuyler County? You know -- you 16 know, what -- how do you -- how do you decide that 12 17 months' manure is not going to smell more and be more 18 hazardous so -- you know, and both of you -- either 19 one of you can, you know, contribute in your answer, 20 but, you know, I'm concerned about the fires. I'm 21 concerned about the manure. I'm concerned about 22 these -- the odor. You know, just why 12 months' 23 manure whenever there's a potential of fire? And 24 we've already had one in Schuyler County. 70 1 DR. HOLLIS: I can address the fire 2 portion. It had nothing to do with manure storage. 3 It started in the farrowing building, which actually 4 has the two-foot pit and is flushed about every three 5 weeks, and so had nothing do with manure storage. 6 And then in terms of the facility itself, 7 all the facilities have on-site monitors, phone call 8 automatic, temperature sensors automatic, and a long 9 list of people that can immediately respond. So I can 10 respect the question for fire as we share the same 11 concern, but I also believe that we have -- Grand 12 Tower Farms has invested in excellent technology to 13 protect the employees, to protect the animals, and to 14 minimize the impact if a fire happens. 15 But in the case of the farm that PSM 16 manages that did have a fire here in Schuyler County, 17 it didn't have anything to do with manure storage, and 18 I can only say that because of the location. It 19 started in the farrowing building. We from there 20 don't know where it started, but we know it started in 21 the farrowing building. 22 MR. WEST: And what I'll talk about is a 23 little bit more general, talking about size of the 24 building versus the likelihood of a fire. And size is 71 1 really not -- not relevant. There have been many more 2 fires in small buildings versus large building. So 3 it's -- size just doesn't -- doesn't play a role in 4 the likelihood of whether or not you're going to have 5 a fire. 6 MS. WILSON: And then the methane gas, the 7 build up of methane gas. The longer the storage, you 8 know, that that gas is going to build up, you know. 9 And I realize you have the fans and stuff, but Hilltop 10 is not the only fire that I have read about, you know, 11 and -- 12 MR. WEST: Well, I wish that was the only 13 one. 14 MS. WILSON: Yeah. 15 MR. WEST: Unfortunately, it's not, and it 16 is something that happens. It's rare, but it does 17 happen. The reason -- if we look at the size of the 18 barn, there's a reason that we have 12 months' worth 19 of storage, and that main reason is for the protection 20 of the environment. 21 Older facilities, older generation 22 facilities, much smaller containment, if any manure 23 containments. And when that pit was full, it either 24 had to run over or you had to go somewhere with it. 72 1 Well, if you have a month's storage or two months' 2 storage and it's pouring down rain or you have a rainy 3 month, which we can, your options are very limited. 4 So by giving yourself 12 months, you are 5 giving yourself many options of when you can go on 6 that field. You can go to multiple crops, depending 7 on if it's a hay crop or a row crop. You can spread 8 that out, and you can go in opportune times and not be 9 trapped into getting yourself into trouble. 10 Something else I was going to say. It 11 slipped. Maybe I'll think about it in a minute. 12 DR. HOLLIS: I can address one more thing 13 on the methane and the pits. 14 We do manage all the farms with pit 15 ventilation, and that's not a requirement. That's 16 another odor control measure. That's another human 17 health and animal health benefit. And so the ability 18 to pull all that air off and dilute it has benefit, 19 and it's also beneficial to the neighbors. 20 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Yes, ma'am. 21 MS. SULLIVAN: Pat Sullivan. 22 Do you -- have you entered or submitted a 23 waste management plan for Grand Tower as of yet? 24 MR. WEST: No, not yet. 73 1 MS. SULLIVAN: This is a -- this is a 2 question that I thought of or a concern of mine that 3 I've had for many years but particularly now, again, 4 because it's coming here in Schuyler County. You have 5 27 locations, and I didn't know your numbers until you 6 presented them in this wonderful presentation here. 7 You have 27 facilities, and many of them are very 8 similar. 9 And I'm talking to you -- I'm looking at 10 you, but I know they're not your facilities, but 11 you've designed them. 12 Why are not the waste management plans 13 presented? You have them. You know what they're 14 going to be. Why are they not put out there as a 15 neighborly -- as a more of a transparent thing so that 16 people can see and feel assured that, yes, you are 17 going to be a good neighbor; yes, you are going to go 18 by the environmental standards; you're going to do all 19 the things you're supposed to do. Why do we keep them 20 close until you have to give them? 21 MR. WEST: Well, there's -- 22 MS. SULLIVAN: It is correct in the plan 23 you don't have to give them until you start 24 construction; right? 74 1 MR. WEST: That is correct for the most 2 part, and I'll let Warren talk about the regulations 3 themselves. 4 And there's no intention to hold things, 5 as you put it. We've written -- we partnered with PSM 6 to write plans for those -- all of those facilities. 7 They are site-specific plans. 8 So the reason -- you can't write a plan 9 until you know exactly -- you know the exact 10 dimensions of the building, until we have building 11 plans that are approved, until we know exactly which 12 field these are going to go on because cropping 13 rotations, tillage practices, soil types in those 14 areas -- those all play a pivotal role in planning out 15 the manure application. So until we have all of those 16 pieces, we can't write the plan. These are -- these 17 are not generalized plans. These are specific to this 18 site -- to each site. So as soon as that information 19 becomes available, we write it and make certain that 20 it's written at the appropriate time so we can get 21 it -- we can meet the regulations. 22 MS. SULLIVAN: Can I ask another question? 23 Do you have a picture -- I might have been 24 looking down at the time -- but a scan of your 75 1 farrowing -- where the sows are? Or do you -- is the 2 only picture you have of the sow where you can see 3 about half of the sow? I've not seen inside your 4 facility, and I hear that they have very, very limited 5 amount of space, and I'm just wondering do you have a 6 picture of that. 7 DR. HOLLIS: I showed two pictures of sows 8 in the individual stalls. And so the one was the 9 individual stalls lined up in a row, and the girl was 10 standing there with the ultrasound device for back fat 11 testing. Those would be individual stalls for 12 breeding. 13 And then I showed a picture of an 14 individual stall for farrowing, which you referred to 15 as half a sow. The message with that is farrowing is 16 designed to protect the baby pigs from crushing, and 17 so the individual sow is essentially in the same 18 space, her individual space, individual feeder, and 19 would look very much the same as the sows standing in 20 breeding barn in those individual stalls. 21 MS. SULLIVAN: And when you say you have 22 8,000 pigs -- or sows -- it's going to be 8,000 sows, 23 is that at one time in that building, or is that over 24 X number of days? 76 1 DR. HOLLIS: Yeah, the 6,200 was listed as 2 mature sows. 3 MS. SULLIVAN: At one time. 4 DR. HOLLIS: And then 1,800 as developing 5 gilts. And all of those 8,000 animals are greater 6 than 55 pounds, and that will be an as-operating 7 number. So at one time. 8 MS. SULLIVAN: At any one day, you know, 9 you may get -- you may move some out but -- 10 DR. HOLLIS: Yeah. We're trying to give 11 our best estimate of an operating inventory, yes. 12 MS. SULLIVAN: Okay. 13 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Are there other 14 questions? 15 Yes, Ms. Wilson. 16 MS. WILSON: Yeah. When you were talking 17 about the expansion barns -- and maybe Mr. Goetsch can 18 add to this. But when you expand and it says that 19 you're going to add a building or a barn, how do you 20 know what is going to be added? You know, how does 21 the public know? You just see more buildings going 22 up, and my question is -- simply because in this area, 23 this very near radius, we have one expansion going on, 24 a new application, a pending application, and so this 77 1 is an issue in this area, and I feel like we really 2 need to -- so with expansion, you have a right to 3 expand after a period of time. And so what -- explain 4 an expansion to me, please. 5 MR. GOETSCH: Well, the statute allows for 6 a facility to expend -- or to expand. If that 7 expansion is less -- or if the value of the overall 8 facility after the expansion -- and I got to say it 9 right. I guess the bottom line is, if a facility -- 10 maybe the easiest way to first ask the question. Is 11 there any plan to possibly expand this type of 12 facility? Or based on the size of it and the 13 location, you don't have a plan for expansion. Maybe 14 that might be the easiest way. 15 DR. HOLLIS: There is no plan for 16 expansion. 17 MS. WILSON: If you were expanding -- and 18 this is a sow -- this is a, you know -- what did you 19 say this is? This operation for this site is -- 20 DR. HOLLIS: This is a sow operation. 21 MS. WILSON: Right. And so if you were 22 going to expand, what building would you increase? 23 Would you just have more sows or more room for piglets 24 or both? 78 1 DR. HOLLIS: There's no plan to expand 2 Grand Tower Farms. And I think what you're asking -- 3 MS. WILSON: (Inaudible.) 4 DR. HOLLIS: Well, no. I think what 5 you're asking is, if you expand a farm like this, 6 which barn do you expand, but really it's -- it's 7 designed to operate because of a certain design that 8 it has today. So if you add gestation, you have to 9 add farrowing. If you -- if you add gestation and 10 farrowing, you have to have room to develop your 11 gilts. 12 MS. WILSON: So multiple -- 13 DR. HOLLIS: Yes. And so the barns are 14 not set up today to expand. It is designed as it is. 15 MS. WILSON: Okay. 16 MR. GOETSCH: And let me just add then. 17 That's why I wanted him to clarify that. What the act 18 sets in terms of our criteria, if the value of an 19 expansion exceeds a certain amount, then the entire 20 project is deemed to be a new facility, and we go back 21 through this whole process. 22 MS. WILSON: Okay. 23 MR. GOETSCH: So there would be a notice 24 given to the County Board. The County Board would 79 1 have the opportunity to ask for a public hearing or a 2 public informational meeting. You know, the setback 3 distances are calculated by the new capacity, and you 4 go through the whole process. 5 If the expansion -- the value of the 6 expansion is less than -- if I remember correctly, 7 it's 50 percent of the fixed capital cost of a 8 comparable entirely new facility is the criteria. But 9 if the expansion is smaller, then you don't -- it's 10 not a new facility, it is just an expansion, and you 11 don't have to go through all of the public 12 informational meeting process, but you still have to 13 file with us a notice of intent to construct. You 14 still have to meet the construction standards. You 15 still have to comply with the waste management 16 planning requirements. You know, the waste management 17 plan would have to be amended to include the new 18 structures. So it's not that someone gets away with 19 anything. It's just the requirements are different 20 depending upon the size of the expansion. 21 But, as he said, that's kind of a moot 22 point in this case because there is no plan for an 23 expansion. 24 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Yes, Ms. Sullivan. 80 1 MS. SULLIVAN: Yes. Mr. Goetsch -- Pat 2 Sullivan. 3 Will the Department of Ag review and 4 approve this facility's waste management plan before 5 allowing it to go into operation? 6 MR. GOETSCH: No. In this particular 7 case, because of the size, if -- well, again, it's one 8 of those things of degrees. If -- the statute 9 requires, if you're over 1,000 animal units but you're 10 less than 5,000, you have to meet all the requirements 11 in terms of what's in a waste management plan and, you 12 know, all of the components. They just have to give 13 us a certification that it is -- that it has been 14 completed and is at the facility and will be followed. 15 If they are over 5,000 animal units, then 16 they are required to submit it to the Department for 17 review and ultimate -- and hopefully approval. 18 But the size of this particular facility 19 as proposed, they're required to have a waste 20 management plan. They're required to prepare it, to 21 follow it, to maintain the records associated with it, 22 but all that information is and would be available to 23 the Department but not prefiled with the Department. 24 MS. SULLIVAN: But you would you never see 81 1 it then? 2 MR. GOETSCH: We would not have to unless 3 we wanted to or needed to. 4 MS. SULLIVAN: Unless you had some 5 questions. Okay. So -- 6 MR. GOETSCH: And we have -- let me just 7 finish by saying there have been occasions where upon 8 an inspection that we had to conduct -- a complaint or 9 for whatever other reason -- where we have asked for 10 and reviewed waste management plans that were not 11 prefiled with us. 12 So just because they don't have to 13 prefile, it doesn't mean that they can just send us a 14 piece of paper and say we have it and not be held 15 accountable because they're required to have as good a 16 waste management plan as a facility that would be 17 required to have it prefiled. 18 MS. SULLIVAN: Okay. Well, tell me 19 then -- because this is something I don't understand. 20 How can you ask our County Board to -- or whoever -- I 21 mean, even the agency, your agency. How can you make 22 a decision on whether or not this facility meets the 23 LMFA criteria number five? 24 MR. GOETSCH: All, I guess, you know -- 82 1 all we can do is go by -- 2 MS. SULLIVAN: You know that criteria 3 better than me just stating -- would you state what 4 that is? 5 MR. GOETSCH: Well, to answer your 6 question, all we can do is hold them accountable for 7 the things in the statute that they are accountable 8 for. So if they're required to comply with setback 9 distances, we make sure that those setback distances 10 are complied with. If they're required to build the 11 facility in a certain way -- that the construction 12 standards are met, that the specs are met, that 13 they're not located in a sensitive area, whether it's 14 aquifer material or karst or whatever -- we have to 15 make sure that they meet those requirements. 16 In the case of a waste management plan, 17 they're not required to have that plan in place 18 prior -- I believe -- if I remember correctly, I 19 believe it's 60 days. They have to have it in place 20 within 60 days of placing that facility into service. 21 If they say that they're going to do that, then we 22 will have -- we have to pass on that. 23 Now, if we don't get that certificate 24 within 60 days of being placed into service, then 83 1 we'll be notifying them that you've not met that 2 requirement, and that would probably trigger us going 3 out to the facility and saying let's see your waste 4 management plan. 5 MS. SULLIVAN: But you also ask the County 6 Board to assess whether this facility -- all the 7 information that's put there for them to be able to 8 make that decision -- you ask them to say, yes or no, 9 do they agree whether all the criteria's been met, and 10 that's one example of the lack of information that the 11 board gets. But that's my question. I mean, I know 12 we're not addressing it now, but the law needs to be 13 changed because they -- they don't give enough 14 information -- 15 MR. GOETSCH: Well, I think -- 16 MS. SULLIVAN: -- in order for county 17 boards to make reasonable, educated decisions on that. 18 MR. GOETSCH: I mean, I understand what 19 you're saying. And perhaps, in a perfect world, all 20 information would be available, but it's not a perfect 21 world, and we have the statute as it's written. And 22 we have to do the best that we can, just like we ask 23 the county boards that get involved in these 24 situations to do the best that they can as well. 84 1 I think that -- if I look back over the 2 last 15 years and compare the public informational 3 meetings that we have today compared to the ones that 4 we had 15 years ago, I think that the industry is 5 doing a much better job of telling people what it is 6 they're proposing to do. 7 I think that the -- the presentation that 8 you saw, even though, you know, there were lots of 9 pictures of kids and cakes, I do think, though, that 10 it's -- the purpose of a public informational meeting 11 is to give you and to give the County Board accurate 12 information as to what is being proposed, to tell 13 you -- you know, to maybe not get caught up in the 14 details: You know, is it -- is it a half inch or 15 three-eights inch or five-eights inch rerod? Is there 16 a waterstop every 20 feet or 40 feet or 60 feet? Not 17 get caught up in that kind of detail, but tell you 18 what kind of facility we're talking about, how big 19 it is, where it's proposed, what kind of waste 20 management -- what kind of waste management activities 21 are being proposed -- are they going to knife it in or 22 are they going to spread it on top -- what kind of 23 safeguards they've put in place so that when they, the 24 County Board, makes their recommendation, they're 85 1 basing it on accurate information, not what somebody 2 heard in the coffee shop that somebody else said. 3 So I think we're doing a better job. Is 4 it perfect? No, it's not, but, you know, as you heard 5 earlier, if this project truly does cost or would cost 6 $11 million, I can understand why someone would be 7 somewhat hesitant to spend all the money to get all 8 these plans, all these blueprints all put together 9 without knowing for sure that they do have a viable 10 site. So, I mean, I can -- I can see both sides. And 11 so the better job we can do of giving you accurate 12 information, I think the better we're doing for 13 everyone. But I also understand the -- you know, the 14 economic shortcomings of this. So it's one of those 15 things where I think we're doing a better job than we 16 have in the past. Maybe it's not perfect, but, you 17 know, there's very few laws that are perfect. 18 MS. SULLIVAN: I guess I'm asking for the 19 same in return. To be able to -- for them -- for your 20 engineering firm to give us an idea on what you're 21 going to do with the waste manage -- or for your waste 22 management plan. Not -- I'm not worried about the 23 inches of the building or exactly, you know. I mean, 24 is it that much different than your Wildcat farm? Or 86 1 is it that much different? 2 You know, I just want to be able to know 3 that my clean water here in Schuyler County and my 4 clean air is going to be protected, and when it's not 5 out there or, you know -- and you're saying just give 6 the basic information, you know, don't get caught up 7 in the details. I just want some basic information 8 about that. That's why I'm asking that question, and 9 I think any of the Schuyler County residents need to 10 ask that question. 11 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Are there other 12 questions? 13 Sir. 14 MR. HARTE: Yes. My name is Ed Harte, 15 H-a-r-t-e. 16 And I'll turn this into a question by 17 prefacing the fact I have been a neighbor of this 18 management operation for nine years. They've been an 19 exceptionally good neighbor, extremely good neighbor. 20 I've had three occasions to communicate with them. 21 The results have been exceptionally well received. 22 So from a neighbor standpoint, I'll phrase 23 my question along with supporting an economic 24 question, economic from the standpoint is this 87 1 operation, this expansion, going to further the 2 benefits of Schuyler County? The residents? 3 Neighbors like me? I guess I'm saying I, for one, am 4 so thankful for the Department of Agriculture and this 5 operation, this endeavor, to present a meeting like 6 this tonight and have the opportunity to express pros 7 and cons. 8 For me, my question is extremely pro. 9 Couldn't ask for a better neighbor, couldn't be more 10 thankful for the economic benefits to our community, 11 and also would like to ask Mr. Hollis are you going to 12 continue the same for the next nine years? 13 DR. HOLLIS: As long as my wife will 14 tolerate me getting home at 10:00 o'clock at night 15 after public meetings, yes. 16 MR. HARTE: Thank you very much. 17 DR. HOLLIS: Thank you for the question. 18 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Are there other 19 questions? 20 Sir. 21 MR. SCHNEIDER: David Schneider, 22 S-c-h-n-e-i-d-e-r. 23 This is -- I'm an engineer. So I'm going 24 to ask some engineering questions. Sorry. Real 88 1 quick. 2 What is the design life of the buildings? 3 Above -- above-ground structures? 4 MR. WEST: I can't get this where I can 5 see you. 6 The design life of which part? The above 7 ground or the below ground? 8 MR. SCHNEIDER: Well, either. Both. I 9 guess I'm asking two questions. 10 DR. HOLLIS: I can speak to the buildings 11 we manage today that were built in '95, '96, and '97. 12 Some metal gets replaced, metal roofing, roof line. 13 Some individual stalls get replaced. Again, steel 14 rusts. But certainly 15 years is acceptable, and we 15 would expect them to continue from there. So we've 16 got 17 years of useful life of several of the 17 buildings with minor building replacement -- I mean, 18 minor building changes. 19 Operationally, we've seen the evolution 20 from 1,000 or 2,000 sows to 5,000 and 6,000 because of 21 a combination of two things: labor and 22 specialization. You have excellent staff in the back 23 that make this a profession. When they can focus 24 their team and their attention on a successful 89 1 operation, that makes that 5,000 sow farm more 2 successful. The second part of that useful life is 3 delivery of those pigs. So when they're delivering a 4 semi load of a thousand or 1200 baby pigs as opposed 5 to the thousand-sow farm delivering 500 or 600, that 6 makes the useful life of that 5,000-sow farm more long 7 term. 8 So, operationally, short answer would be 9 15, 17 years is not too long today, and we're going to 10 keep going. So I don't know how long that will be. 11 MR. SCHNEIDER: And below -- below-ground 12 structures? 13 MR. WEST: Yeah, that's where I'll kick in 14 here. There would be no reason why we -- that you 15 wouldn't get multiple, multiple decades out of this 16 facility. There's nothing -- there would be no rebar 17 exposed that would cause any rust issues. All the 18 joints are protected by waterstop. So they're -- 19 we've not seen any -- any design like this that have 20 worn out; so -- 21 MR. SCHNEIDER: If you don't mind, I'll 22 proceed with some small questions that pertain to what 23 we're talking about. 24 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. 90 1 MR. SCHNEIDER: I'm just curious. Is 2 there a plan for -- well, is there a design for 3 seismic? No? Yes? 4 MR. WEST: No. No. 5 MR. SCHNEIDER: The other item -- really 6 I'm curious about decommissioning the site. Is there 7 any plans ever put together in regards to 8 decommissioning a site? 9 MR. WEST: Actually, there are rules set 10 in place in the LMFA that govern the decommission and, 11 in particular, the manure removal of a facility like 12 this. So there's no plan in place that I've written 13 or anybody else has written for this facility. But we 14 would have certain requirements that we would have to 15 go through to meet the LMFA's requirements. 16 MR. SCHNEIDER: In regards to eliminating 17 the waste -- 18 MR. WEST: Yes. 19 MR. SCHNEIDER: -- but I'm talking about 20 the structural building. 21 MR. WEST: No. There's nothing in place 22 at this time for that. 23 MR. SCHNEIDER: Thank you. 24 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. One last 91 1 call. All right. 2 I think we've exhausted all the questions. 3 We're going to give the reporter here a 4 short break. So let's take a ten-minute break, and 5 we'll come back and start with the oral testimony. 6 Thank you. 7 (Short recess.) 8 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: I have the sign-in 9 sheets that were on the side of the room listing the 10 people who wish to provide oral testimony. I'll go 11 down the list and call the names of the people who 12 wish to testify. When called upon, please step up to 13 the podium, state your name, and spell your last name. 14 I will then swear you in. You will have four minutes 15 to speak. 16 First on the list is Gary Donley. 17 State your name and spell it, please. 18 MR. DONLEY: Gary Donley, D-o-n-l-e-y. 19 (Mr. Donley was duly sworn.) 20 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: You may proceed. 21 MR. DONLEY: I'd like to make a few 22 comments, if I might, about some of the economic 23 impacts that Grand Tower Farms will have on the area, 24 and I realize that there's more to -- more to life and 92 1 more to the world than economics, but the dollar 2 impact that Grand Tower -- that this business will 3 have are real, and they do impact -- and I believe in 4 a positive fashion -- the local economy for the 5 Huntsville Township area. 6 As Dr. Hollis mentioned, there will be an 7 approximately $11 million investment by the owners of 8 the operation in terms of land, building, equipment, 9 inventory, and bringing that inventory up to full 10 value will cost in excess of $11 million. And $11 11 million dropped into that part of the county and that 12 part of the township is a real big impact. And we 13 demonstrated that the impact from a tax base to the 14 local area will almost be $100,000 based on the 2010 15 tax rates. We were pushing that hundred-thousand- 16 dollar range in terms of that total impact. 17 If we look at the assessment, the 18 assessment will increase in Huntsville Township by 19 approximately 30 percent with the addition of this 20 facility to the tax rolls of Huntsville Township. And 21 I realize that that doesn't impact perhaps the whole 22 county, the whole state, but that local -- that local 23 area, the assessed value will increase by, again, 24 almost a 30 percent increase. 93 1 Grand Tower Farms will be an operation 2 that will have ongoing expenses, ongoing investment 3 within the community of 5 million -- in excess of $5 4 million per year, and a lot of those are local, 5 stay-at-home dollars. Over three quarters of a 6 million dollars in payroll. There will be local 7 people hired to transport feed, to transport pigs in 8 and out, to do the service work on the facilities -- 9 the local plumber, local electrician -- and so the 10 economic impact of Grand Tower and putting the 11 business in in Huntsville Township here in Schuyler 12 County are an important part of what the operation 13 brings. 14 And that's my testimony. 15 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. Thank you. 16 Are there questions for this witness? 17 MS. VALENTINE: How many are they going to 18 employ? 19 MR. DONLEY: Full employment would be 20 between 18 and 20 people. 21 COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry, ma'am. 22 MS. VALENTINE: Sandra Valentine. 23 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Other questions? 24 Seeing none, thank you. 94 1 Next up we have Chris Blevins. 2 MR. BLEVINS: I'll pass at this time. 3 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. 4 COURT REPORTER: Spell that last name. 5 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Last name is 6 B-l-e-v-i-n-s. 7 Is that correct? 8 MR. BLEVINS: Yes, sir. 9 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Jeff White. 10 MR. WHITE: You want me up there? 11 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Yes, up here, 12 please. 13 Would you state your name and spell it, 14 please. 15 MR. WHITE: Jeff White, W-h-i-t-e. 16 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Please raise your 17 right hand. 18 (Mr. White was duly sworn.) 19 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Proceed. 20 MR. WHITE: I work for Nutrition Services, 21 Incorporated, in Carthage, Illinois. We are a feed 22 service company that delivers the feed to the farms 23 that are operated by Professional Swine Management and 24 have done so since 2003. I like my job, and I want to 95 1 see our company grow in the local area. 2 The structure of agriculture in Illinois 3 has changed significantly in my lifetime. Like all of 4 you attending tonight, I'm concerned with providing 5 for our current and future food production needs and 6 at the same time protecting our environment. 7 I'm not smart enough to solve all of the 8 concerns of each and every one of you. I do, however, 9 want to see west central Illinois begin to prosper 10 again, and I know that it starts with companies that 11 are willing to make investments in our local economy 12 that create jobs, and we must find a way to do this 13 and live together. 14 Thank you. 15 HEARING OFFICER FRANK. Thank you. 16 Are there questions for this witness? 17 Thank you. 18 Next up we have Dan Cole. 19 MR. COLE: Dan Cole, C-o-l-e. 20 (Mr. Cole was duly sworn.) 21 MR. COLE: I'm Dan Cole of the Illinois 22 Corn Growers Association. I'm a farmer -- corn farmer 23 and soybean farmer in southern Adams County. 24 I would just like the County Board to 96 1 understand and realize -- and I'm sure you do -- that 2 rural counties in Illinois have to allow livestock 3 production and the expansion of livestock production. 4 It's the number one customer of the corn farmer and 5 the soybean farmer in Illinois. If we push this into 6 another state, we're not only hurting our own economy, 7 we're hurting our own future. 8 And therefore I'd strongly urge the county 9 to allow science to dictate their expansion and not 10 emotion. 11 That's all I have. 12 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Are there 13 questions for this witness? 14 Thank you. 15 Next we have Adam Annegers. 16 MR. ANNEGERS: Adam Annegers, 17 A-n-n-e-g-e-r-s. 18 (Mr. Annegers was duly sworn.) 19 MR. ANNEGERS: I have worked for 20 Professional Swine Management for nine-and-a-half 21 years. I have managed several buildings like Grand 22 Tower proposed tonight. I am a volunteer fire fighter 23 with Carthage Fire Department. I'm active with 24 coaching fifth and sixth grade football, softball 97 1 teams, baseball teams. PSM employees are very active 2 in the communities that we live in. 3 With the buildings that I have managed, I 4 have had good relationships with all neighbors. I 5 know them on a first-name basis, stop and talk with 6 them. They all have my phone numbers. If there's 7 ever an issue or a question, they call me anytime. 8 I strongly urge that Schuyler County 9 passes Grand Tower Farms, and that we will continue to 10 provide jobs for local people, and the economics of 11 this building will help Schuyler County. 12 Thank you. 13 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Are there 14 questions for this witness? 15 Thank you. 16 Next we have Ed Harte. 17 State your name and spell it, please. 18 MR. HARTE: Ed Harte, H-a-r-t-e. 19 (Mr. Harte was duly sworn.) 20 MR. HARTE: Nine years ago I came to 21 Schuyler County and purchased some real estate. It 22 was after I purchased that real estate that I realized 23 that a good portion of my property was under contract. 24 It was under a contract for the disposal of the 98 1 manure. 2 Retiring and wishing to develop this 3 property, I made a phone call to Mr. Bill Hollis who 4 invited me to the next board meeting. That board sat 5 down and just asked me a few questions what my 6 concerns were. That board had a legal, binding 7 contractual relationship with the previous property 8 owner that basically stays with the property. 9 When they found out that I was interested 10 in improving that land, they were extremely helpful, 11 very cordial, and I could have not asked for a better 12 reception. 13 I'd also like to state that during the 14 nine years I've had two occasions where I've had the 15 opportunity or the need to talk to the men in the 16 field with their equipment. One was the timing of 17 their application. The other one time out of nine 18 years was a very tight corner, and you started seeing 19 maybe a little bit too much on the surface. Their 20 concern over that was applaudable in explaining 21 that -- how it happened and it was not their intent, 22 and it was gone the next day. 23 I have had, in nine years, no odor 24 whatsoever. I live, I don't know, approximately a 99 1 mile. I have never -- nor has my family -- ever had 2 even the slightest hint of odor, and for that and 3 their efforts we appreciate. 4 As being a licensed appraiser in the State 5 of Illinois for many, many years, I've had a 6 considerable amount of experience with economic 7 obsolescence, which economic obsolescence comes about 8 when a commercial operation comes into an area and, 9 because of the nature of their operation, they have or 10 can have a negative impact on the values of real 11 estate. 12 If I were appraising surrounding 13 properties today, I would make mention of the 14 operation or the proximity of it, but my conclusion 15 would be no economic obsolescence or no negative value 16 associated with that operation. 17 Thank you. 18 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Thank you. 19 Are there questions for this witness? 20 Thank you. 21 MR. HARTE: Thank you. 22 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Next up we have 23 Jim Kaitschuk. 24 MR. KAITSCHUK: I'm going to pass this 100 1 evening, sir. 2 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Thank you. 3 COURT REPORTER: Spelling of that last 4 name? 5 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Last name is 6 spelled K-a-i-t-s-c-h -- and then what? 7 MR. KAITSCHUK: -u-k. 8 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: -u-k? 9 MR. KAITSCHUK: Correct. 10 COURT REPORTER: Thank you. 11 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Dereke Dunkirk? 12 MR. DUNKIRK: I'll pass. 13 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Thank you. That's 14 spelled D-u-n-k-i-r-k? 15 MR. DUNKIRK: Correct. 16 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Pat Sullivan. 17 State and spell your name, please. 18 MS. SULLIVAN: Pat Sullivan, 19 S-u-l-l-i-v-a-n. 20 (Ms. Sullivan was duly sworn.) 21 MS. SULLIVAN: I've taught environmental 22 education for 23 years, and I see some concerns, and I 23 like to ask questions, and I like to have solid 24 answers, and I've been a -- been on a board for the 101 1 watershed protection for over 11 years. 2 I am concerned about the history of the 3 environmental track record of Professional Swine 4 Management because I -- I know that there have been 5 issues, and maybe some of them have been dealt with, 6 but the thing is, is that, in many of these cases, the 7 water and the air are polluted for many, many years 8 before a violation gets corrected, and that's my 9 concern. I -- I believe we all have the right to 10 clean air and clean water and that more people need to 11 not take it for granted because it's not always going 12 to be there. And so I ask these questions and I -- 13 You know, one concern that I have is that 14 this particular site could be located on a very 15 shallow aquifer and it could be in the area. I know 16 that they said that they've done some boreholes. 17 I wonder whether it's been done adequately. I -- you 18 know, tonight was not where you can get all the 19 details, but that would be a question: You know, is 20 the aquifer far enough away and will it be -- will our 21 water supply -- because I don't live over there but 22 other people do, and I don't want their wells 23 contaminated, and I don't want their surface water 24 contaminated. So I want to ask that question. 102 1 And I just -- I think we need to ask the 2 questions and -- and make sure that what -- what we're 3 getting is going to be a good neighbor, as they say 4 they are. I'm totally fine to have good neighbors 5 come in if they're up front and they're doing what 6 they're saying they're doing, and I appreciate the 7 opportunity to speak. 8 Thank you. 9 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Thank you. 10 Are there questions for this witness? 11 Thank you. 12 Next we have Henry Wilson. 13 MR. WILSON: I'll pass. 14 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: David Schneider. 15 MR. SCHNEIDER: David Schneider, 16 S-c-h-n-e-i-d-e-r. 17 (Mr. Schneider was duly sworn.) 18 MR. SCHNEIDER: I'm the county engineer 19 for Schuyler County, and I was just wanting to share 20 some numbers and continue our dialogue that we have 21 had with PSM in the past, and I would like to just 22 point out some numbers. 23 I think the numbers already have been 24 talked about in regards to the tax base very well. I 103 1 do want to stress that the travel of a vehicle -- and 2 I think everybody understands this, especially the 3 last three years. I have to defend the roads, and I'm 4 going to stress the fact that the roads, if you have a 5 vehicle every day during essentially February through 6 potentially April for frost -- the freeze-thaw cycle 7 coming out of that area, there is potential major 8 damage. We've had past experience. Those things have 9 been addressed. 10 I do want to share some numbers, though, 11 in regards to some of the sites in the county because 12 we have plenty of experience with this management team 13 and actually another management team in the county. 14 Primarily Hilltop, LLC, has a township mileage to 15 egress or ingress, either way, of 1.4 miles. 16 Timberline has 1 1/4 miles. Prairie State Gilts in 17 Brooklyn Township, for those that don't know, 1.8 18 miles. And I think Mr. Hollis presented the fact that 19 this is going to be actually three miles to get out to 20 a hard road. This is gravel and dirt currently. 21 Okay. And I just want to stress these 22 taxes are appreciated, but from a road standpoint, 23 when you're looking at those mileages, it should be 24 noted the townships's going to receive somewhere 104 1 probably around 3,000 -- what was it? 3300? 2 Somewhere in there, 3300 to 3400. Hilltop very 3 similar. Also, New Dominion is very similar in that 4 regard. 5 I'd like to point out also -- and this is 6 regards to the county road system. Of the county 7 breakout on your tax bill -- and I'm just going to let 8 you know -- that go to roads, that's a 10 percent of 9 your tax bill, truly only 2 percent of it goes to 10 county roads. Okay. So essentially the county gets 11 less for property tax than a township does by about 12 almost 60 percent. Just wanted to share that. 13 Primarily, then, I just want to point out 14 also -- it's very simple -- that to rock a road two 15 inches to three inches deep, using an average of 16 two-and-a-half inches deep, putting rock down annually 17 is a good recommended maintenance on something that's 18 going to have traveled -- heavy loads, 80,000 pound 19 trucks, you need to take this into consideration: 20 That the cost annually for a 16-foot-wide road -- 21 current rate for CA6 per ton is at $10 a ton. Total 22 cost for a 16-foot-wide road one mile is $12,800. For 23 an 18-foot-wide road, it is -- you know, I'm talking 24 about width of roads. Township roads are all -- 105 1 there's some narrow ones. There's some wider ones. 2 But going that two-and-a-half inches deep on an 3 18-foot-wide road costs $14,400. On a 20-foot-wide 4 road, it is $16,000. I won't go into the cents of it, 5 but generally those are the dollars. 6 And I just want to share the expenses that 7 I see that the townships incur, and the other hog 8 confinements that we have worked with in the past have 9 essentially half the mileage to get out on those 10 township roads. This one is going to almost double 11 that, and I just want to make that a note. 12 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. Thank you. 13 Are there questions? 14 Yes, Mr. Anderson. 15 MR. ANDERSON: Nic Anderson, 16 A-n-d-e-r-s-o-n. 17 In this agricultural community that you 18 live in with the changing times in agriculture with 19 bigger trucks, bigger equipment, what kind of impacts 20 do you see from other aspects of agriculture, not just 21 focusing on pork side, on maintaining the roads and 22 having enough tax base to address getting our 23 products -- 24 MR. SCHNEIDER: Thank you. I would love 106 1 to talk about that. We don't. We don't. 2 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: One at a time, 3 please. 4 MR. SCHNEIDER: Oh, I'm sorry. 5 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Finish the 6 question. 7 MR. ANDERSON: So how do we address this 8 picture, not just singling out the hog side of things? 9 Do we all pay more taxes? Do you propose that we 10 should apply more taxes to agriculture? Just get your 11 opinion on that. 12 MR. SCHNEIDER: I'm just presenting the 13 facts here. Good question. 14 There's numerous ways to look at it. We 15 could go into bridges. I could discuss bridges, if 16 you're asking about agriculture. Small narrow bridges 17 need wider bridges. Those are very expensive. 18 To answer your question on how to fund 19 that, there -- people don't want to talk about taxes. 20 And you're asking me do I want to present a tax? I'm 21 an appointed official. I'm not going to present a 22 tax. 23 But what are you asking? 24 MR. ANDERSON: You pointed out negatives 107 1 on impacts, and are we realizing the total impacts in 2 rural America on the roads that we're getting our 3 products to town with. You've singled out the pork 4 industry because we are talking about it tonight 5 but -- 6 MR. SCHNEIDER: No. Actually -- actually 7 -- actually I'm pointing out the time of travel. In 8 the fall, when it's dryer -- typically dryer, except 9 in the last few years we've had some bad weather roads 10 because of hauling out grain in the fall. I grew up 11 on a farm. I grew up on a hog farm. I don't have an 12 issue with what you're trying to say in regards to is 13 it the same. No, it isn't because of the fact of the 14 time of year and the frost cycle. 15 MR. ANDERSON: Does grain go out during 16 winter months out of storage? 17 MR. SCHNEIDER: Usually, if they have it 18 out of storage -- and that's something new -- there 19 are issues, but I'm finding that most of them are 20 putting them near hard road surfaces, not on gravel 21 roads. 22 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Mr. White. 23 MR. SCHNEIDER: Point well made. 24 MR. WHITE: I'm not certain about Schuyler 108 1 County so I just need to ask this question: Do you 2 have gas tax roads over here? 3 MR. SCHNEIDER: Certainly. 4 MR. WHITE: Do your townships? 5 MR. SCHNEIDER: Yes. 6 MR. WHITE: So in the 80,000 gallons of 7 fuel that we purchase to deliver feed, you get a 8 portion of that; correct? 9 MR. SCHNEIDER: Excellent question. It's 10 a flat tax that has been in place since 1992, and 11 primarily the roads for townships receive a flat rate 12 of per mileage basis. And they get essentially 12- to 13 $1400 a mile of road. That's how that works. 1200 to 14 $1400 per mile of road. 15 MR. WHITE: Then I have -- 16 MR. SCHNEIDER: Which is -- if you would 17 agree, that's nominal to the numbers we're talking 18 about. 19 MR. WHITE: But in addition to property 20 taxes, it is still a tax that you all -- 21 MR. SCHNEIDER: Yes. It's about 20 22 percent of what the discussion here. 23 MR. WHITE: I'd just like to know some of 24 the 80,000 gallons we purchase is coming your way too. 109 1 MR. SCHNEIDER: It's 19 1/2 cents goes 2 every gallon since it was $2 a gallon, or even 1.20 3 back in 1992 was 19 1/2 cents, and today it is 19 1/2 4 cents. It is a flat tax. 5 MR. WHITE: Then the second question I 6 have -- because this is a running argument within our 7 company, and because you're an engineer you probably 8 can give me an answer I can go back with. 9 MR. SCHNEIDER: Now you're really -- 10 MR. WHITE: In the wintertime when the -- 11 in the wintertime when roads are posted, would you 12 rather have one semi at 80,000 pounds travel that road 13 or four trucks of 20,000 pounds to deliver the same 14 amount of feed? 15 MR. SCHNEIDER: Your question pertains to 16 increased humping of the road when it comes out of 17 frost. 18 MR. WHITE: I've got to get the 80,000 19 there somehow. Is it better in one increment or four? 20 One-to-four ratio. 21 MR. SCHNEIDER: It's depends on the axle 22 loading and things of that nature. I won't get into 23 it, but it depends on how the axles are spread out and 24 if you have -- what do you have on the axles? Do you 110 1 have -- how many tires you got on the back axle? You 2 know, how many tires you got on the front axle? Do 3 you have low tires? What do you got? 4 MR. WHITE: So it -- 5 MR. SCHNEIDER: I mean, it really depends 6 on those point loadings, yes. 7 MR. WHITE: Okay. I would just -- I would 8 just assume the more trips over a soft road 9 regardless. 10 MR. SCHNEIDER: And, you know, it's 11 presented to school districts when it's coming out of 12 frost to look at their small school buses instead of 13 their large ones, yes. 14 MR. WHITE: Okay. 15 MR. SCHNEIDER: Does that answer it a 16 little bit better? 17 MR. WHITE: Yes. Thank you. 18 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Other questions? 19 Thank you. 20 Next we have Mary Wilson. 21 MS. WILSON: I'm going to pass. 22 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. Thank you. 23 Doug Groth? 24 MR. GROTH: I'll pass. 111 1 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Thank you. 2 That's spelled G-r-o-t-h. 3 COURT REPORTER: What was the first name? 4 Doug? 5 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Doug. 6 COURT REPORTER: Thank you. 7 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: And Nic Anderson? 8 MR. ANDERSON: I'll offer my time to 9 Warren. Thanks. 10 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. Let me go 11 back down through the list to make sure I didn't miss 12 anybody. 13 Is there anyone else who would like to 14 provide oral testimony? 15 Okay. Seeing none, I will enter into the 16 record as Exhibit No. 4 the oral testimony sign-in 17 sheet. 18 Is there any written testimony that anyone 19 would like to offer at this time? 20 And while they are coming up here, I will 21 enter into the record as Exhibit No. 5 the attendance 22 sign-in sheet. 23 Okay. And this is from Ms. Wilson? 24 MS. WILSON: Yes. 112 1 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: And what do we 2 have here? 3 MS. WILSON: There's several documents in 4 there -- informational documents. 5 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. Several -- 6 MS. WILSON: Uh-huh. 7 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: I'd say many 8 informational documents. 9 MS. WILSON: Yeah. 10 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. This series 11 of documents from Ms. Wilson will be entered into the 12 record as Exhibit No. 6. 13 Thank you. 14 Okay. Entered into the record as Exhibit 15 No. 7 is a statement from Dr. Laura Greiner, and 16 that's spelled G-r-e-i-n-e-r. 17 Entered into the record as Exhibit No. 8 18 are about three tables and a graph from David 19 Schneider. 20 Any other written testimony to be entered 21 this evening? 22 Are there any closing remarks from the 23 facility? 24 DR. HOLLIS: No. 113 1 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Okay. None. 2 Closing remarks from the Department? 3 MR. GOETSCH: On behalf of the Department 4 of Agriculture's Bureau of Environmental Programs, I'd 5 like to thank you all for your participation. 6 I'd also like to personally thank the 7 Schuyler County Board and the staff here at the 8 courthouse for the welcoming atmosphere and the 9 assistance that you all provided. We really 10 appreciated it, and I think it was -- it was very 11 helpful for us to be able to put this meeting together 12 this evening -- put it on this evening. 13 Let me assure you that the Department 14 appreciates the time and effort that everyone has 15 expended to attend this meeting. I'm sure that the 16 Schuyler County Board will consider the comments that 17 were provided as they develop their recommendation, 18 and I can assure you that the Department will 19 certainly consider your comments as we complete our 20 evaluation process as this whole process continues. 21 So thank you again. That's all I have, 22 Scott. 23 HEARING OFFICER FRANK: Thank you. 24 As I mentioned earlier, a copy of the 114 1 transcript will be provided to the County Board. For 2 others desiring a copy, you may contact the court 3 reporter. 4 Thank you for your attendance here 5 tonight. 6 This public informational meeting is 7 hereby closed. Thank you. 8 (Meeting adjourned at 8:40 P.M.) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 115 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 2 STATE OF ILLINOIS ) 3 ) ss. 4 COUNTY OF SANGAMON ) 5 I, ROBIN A. ENSTROM, a Registered 6 Professional Reporter, Certified Shorthand Reporter, 7 and Notary Public within and for the State of 8 Illinois, do hereby certify that the foregoing 9 proceedings were taken by me to the best of my 10 ability and thereafter reduced to typewriting under 11 my direction; that I am neither counsel for, related 12 to, nor employed by any of the parties to the action 13 in which these proceedings were taken; and further 14 that I am not a relative or employee of any attorney 15 or counsel employed by the parties thereto, nor 16 financially or otherwise interested in the outcome of 17 the action. 18 19 20 __________________________________ 21 Notary Public in and for 22 the State of Illinois 23 24